@Dibsville
Alright, thanks for the input, I was wondering since the weapon is quite difficult to acquire if you do not already have a large stash of crowns for it or pay money to get it from the box.
I'd vote as well but I do not fulfill the requirement for possessing 20 different bombs.
"I'd vote as well but I do not fulfill the requirement for possessing 20 different bombs."
You don't need twenty different bombs to vote. :P You only need seven different bombs; you need twenty 5* items overall, but only seven bombs.
@Dibsville
Oh okay, I can fulfill that then, most of my 5* weapons are swords and guns. (Never really had interests in bombs for damage, just support.)
Paid a snipe to mail in verification that I am also Aneurysms on the SK forums and that I also approve this message.
Ash of Agni: 4
Big Angry Bomb: 3
Dark Briar Barrage: 5
Dark Retribution: 5
Deadly Crystal Bomb: 3
Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: 3
Deadly Shard Bomb: 4
Deadly Splinter Bomb: 3
Electron Vortex: 5
Graviton Vortex: 3
Irontech Destroyer: 2
Nitronome: 4
Obsidian Crusher: 4
Scintillating Sun Shards: 4
Shivermist Buster: 4
Shocking Salt Bomb: 3
Stagger Storm: 4
Venom Veiler: 4
Voltaic Tempest: 4
Heavy Deconstructor: 2
*probably a temporary edit: VT and Heavy Deconstructor don't have little spaces in front of their colons, and I mention that because I dunno if that would affect your automatic number sorting
@Bopp
Please vote! I'm sure that as long as you have some experience with damage bombs, you're very fit for it.
I think Bopp makes a great point - the reason I'm suggesting this is because people with outdated opinions shouldn't be eligible. As for statuses, I think that's no problem at all. Most people will probably have fire and shock guns if they have 10 guns or whatever the requirement will be.
Voting ends sometime on Monday the 21st of September. If you plan on voting, please make sure to do so no later than on the preceeding Sunday.
With this policy stated, you can't really close the polls before midnight tonight (game time), which is still more than 12 hours away. And if you can't close the polls, then you shouldn't care when I vote.
Or, to put it a friendlier way: Yes, I am working on my votes. It's really difficult.
Well that's assuming we're talking about american time. Expect me to clsoe sometime around the european afternoon tomorrow, which is morning/noon-ish american time. I'm glad you're putting a lot of thought into it anyhow, thanks!
I assume that everyone talks in game time until they say otherwise. For what it's worth, I don't live in game time either.
Ash of Agni: 4
Big Angry Bomb: 3
Dark Briar Barrage: 5
Dark Retribution: 5
Deadly Crystal Bomb: 2
Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: 2
Deadly Shard Bomb: 2
Deadly Splinter Bomb: 2
Electron Vortex: 5
Graviton Vortex: 4
Irontech Destroyer: 3
Nitronome: 4
Obsidian Crusher: 4
Scintillating Sun Shards: 2
Shivermist Buster: 2
Shocking Salt Bomb: 2
Stagger Storm: 4
Venom Veiler: 3
Voltaic Tempest: 4
Heavy Deconstructor: 1
This is awkward, but I'd like not to reveal my bomb inventory. For what it's worth, I claim to fulfill the requirement of having seven 5-star bombs, including at least one bomb of each style and at least one bomb of each status. I do not claim to have informed opinions on all 20 bombs, however. :( Have you considered allowing "abstain" votes?
Bopp's speculated bomb inventory:
Dark retribution
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
Stagger storm
I happen to have exactly 20 5* weapons, of which I have 5 bombs, 5 guns, and 10 swords.
lel
I would like to mention Irontech Bomb for being an outstanding 4* bomb with pretty decent knockback, stun chance, and 5* bomb range. I wouldn't spend the time to upgrade and heat an Irontech Destroyer when there's such limiting returns.
Why would you make a DVS when Vile Striker has the same poison strength and poison proc?
Why would you make a Deadly Crystal Bomb when Heavy Crystal Bomb has the same number of shards?
You increase the damage by upgrading these weapons, but if you wanted damage you should've gotten the mainstream weapons that output better and more consistent dps. You should not have excluded heating as a part of the judgement of these weapons.
Qwez you're giving me flashbacks to like, 2 or 3 years ago, but I'm too lazy to find the thread where that sorta wording happened.
Even if the increase isn't by much or "worth it" in your opinion, dread venom striker is in every way superior to vile striker once you've paid for it.
We're assuming that the weapons are level 10, as stated by the OP, and as stated by Fehzor, DVS is in every way superior to Vile Striker when both are level 10, so Vile Striker is irrelevant. This goes for any weapon that is directly upgraded and/or mostly unchanged from 4* to 5*. Faust was realistically only on the sword's list because it charges at the same speed as a Brandish while Gran Faust charges at like half the speed of a Vortex bomb, as well as Faust having less self-Curse, making it a viable way to spread Curse around while Gran Faust... is not.
If we're limiting weapons of their full potential, then weapons that need higher levels to shine such as Antiguas would be gimped while being rated, weapons that have great charges would be unfairly rated because of either the lack of charge time, the lack of damage, the lack of significance in its 4* charge, or two, or all three of those put together, among a lot of other problems.
Also, will the community be rating shields and armor? It would be nice to see some ratings on shields at the very least though I can understand if armor wasn't rated.
Dark Retribution: 4
Solid damage, 0 knockback, but low aggroing factor
Dark Briar Barrage: 5
Solid damage, little knockback, high knockdown rate
Nitronome: 4
Reliable, fun, spammy, offers control to expert bombers. In inexperienced (or evil) hands can cause trouble.
Venom Veiler: 3
Lackluster damage but excellent for AOE poisoning
Obsidian Crusher: 4
Excellent when paired correctly
Electron Vortex: 4
Solid team support, but random knockback thanks to shock
Ash of Agni: 4
Reliable damage and 0 knockback
Voltaic Tempest: 4
Fair damage in crowds and excellent control of enemies while not creating impermeable walls
Shivermist Buster: 2
Great for holding down enemies but lackluster damage and kiting hindrance come into play.
Big Angry Bomb: 3
Fun and great for dispersing crowds
Shocking Salt Bomb: 4
Spammy, decent damage, great status, wide damage coverage
Scintillating Sun Shards: 3
Not as good as it's salty brother but still servicable
Deadly Crystal Bomb: 4
Salute for being the only damage oriented status free elemental bomb
Heavy Deconstructor: 2
Incomplete line, can be outdone with the correct armor or UVed Nitronome
Graviton Vortex: 3
Good if you are a bomber with extra weapon slots, if not go for obsidian.
Stagger Storm: 4
Vastly superior to the Shivermist in terms of where it is viable, excellent for supporting fellow bombers
Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: 3
Solid knockdown and flinch
Deadly Splinter Bomb: 1
Target enemies often too fast to make use of this bomb
Irontech Destroyer: 3
The solid middle ground between Nitronome and BAB. A good solid bomb for the bomber wanting some extra power but not wanting to be caught charging all the time.
Deadly Shard Bomb: 1
Serviceable but not exemplary.....
Celestial Vortex: 0
Knockback on every blast, does not compliment the current Vortex/Brandish sword (Combuster), box only. 5 out of 5 if it's job was to P*** me off.
Dark Retribution: 4
Dark Briar Barrage: 5
Nitronome: 4
Venom Veiler: 3
Obsidian Crusher: 4
Electron Vortex: 4
Ash of Agni: 4
Voltaic Tempest: 4
Shivermist Buster: 2
Big Angry Bomb: 3
Shocking Salt Bomb: 4
Scintillating Sun Shards: 3
Deadly Crystal Bomb: 4
Heavy Deconstructor: 2
Graviton Vortex: 3
Stagger Storm: 4
Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: 3
Deadly Splinter Bomb: 1
Irontech Destroyer: 3
Deadly Shard Bomb: 1
CV: 0
If we do a rating on shields it would probably be pretty dry lol, sort of like rating your toothbrush for the most part. Shields like dragon scale, omega shell and the tortodrone shields would likely end up being on the fence due to players either loving or hating them, and shields like cobalt would get ones. I'd do shields last (after trinkets, even) if at all.
If we do armors, we'll need a way to condense the gunner armors into something. I'd suggest something like-
Padded lines
padded lines (+shock, -freeze): 5
padded lines (+freeze, -poison): 1
padded lines (+poison, -fire): 3
padded lines (+fire, -shock): 5
padded lines (shadow): 5
padded lines (elemental): 4
padded lines (piercing): 5
padded lines (neutral damage): 5
padded lines (specialized damage): 3
padded lines overall: 5
---------
I also added celestial vortex into my rating at a 5 (disregarding cost and how the weapon made you feel when it came out and one percent of players could get it, Holy-Nightmare), since it's basically a stronger version of ash of agni that acts as a vortex at the cost of less movement speed.
"...dread venom striker is in every way superior to vile striker once you've paid for it." "We're assuming that the weapons are level 10..."
I'm arguing that you should consider heating costs to effective gains because as it currently is, it's disregarding the people who do not put as much time/cash into the game. Sure these players may have a less knowledgable opinion, but by excluding heating and crown costs you're excluding the viewpoint of some of the community.
Can you call it the community weapon ratings, when this is just the elite's opinion?
If you called this the Veteran/Old Players/Elite Community weapon ratings I'd have no arguments perfectly fine.
@Fangel
I did say something very similar in a couple of posts last year (typed in a different way), but Zeddy did some analysis ~3 years ago and posted about Irontech Bomb here and there. So I guess you were talking about Zeddy?
When Krakob first proposed this rating game, we argued over the details, trying to make it perfect. And we failed. So Krakob got discouraged and didn't do it at all. This is an illustration of perfect is the enemy of good.
Months later (that is, recently), Krakob went ahead with this simple rating system and got players to respond. I'm glad, because it gives some insight into equipment balance, even if it's not perfect.
Once we're done, maybe we could have a second round about how our answers would change if we considered costs of obtaining and heating. Or we could have more detailed ratings about individual monster families, FSC, Dreams and Nightmares, compounds, etc. But for now we have this.
Yeah, Bopp is really right about this. I quit arguing in the old thread because it was clearly going nowhere and I'd really rather we not do that sort of jumbled up mess again. The current iteration's rules do make some sense though- they're just assessing weapons without regards to their value in game- it would make sense for some items to be better or worse in this context, which is the one that most "elite" players care about.
"If we do a rating on shields it would probably be pretty dry lol, sort of like rating your toothbrush for the most part. Shields like dragon scale, omega shell and the tortodrone shields would likely end up being on the fence due to players either loving or hating them, and shields like cobalt would get ones. I'd do shields last (after trinkets, even) if at all."
I had a response that was like six paragraphs long for this, but I suppose my posts are too bloated with unnecessary information lately so I'll just keep this short-- what if we use a 0-5 point system for shields based on its usefulness in certain areas (which could be listed out), such as Savage Tortoise getting 5 points because of UGWW, while Ironmight and Dread Skelly both get a 4, and Royal Jelly gets a 3, while Grey Owlite would get a 0, and so on, and then add all the points up for each shield after rating them for every area, and making the list based on that? Just throwing out ideas here.
"Can you call it the community weapon ratings, when this is just the elite's opinion?
If you called this the Veteran/Old Players/Elite Community weapon ratings I'd have no arguments perfectly fine."
As someone who personally only has four 5* weapons that are level 10, can I just ask "what?" If you were worried about heating, then we can assume all the weapons are level 1-- and because of that, we'd have to assume all the 4* weapons are level 1, and 3* weapons are level 1, and so on. Literally the only difference here is the lack of CTR Med. Just because there's a lack of Radiants doesn't make it any less viable to vote on a weapon's potential. Dread Venom Striker is in all ways better than Vile Striker as long as they're both at the same level. Besides, there are plenty of people who still complain that Shinings are too rare and have a hard time levelling up their 4* gear, so I don't see how this changes anything?
"Just because there's a lack of Radiants doesn't make it any less viable to vote on a weapon's potential."
That's what I'm arguing about; Radiants and stuff should be a part of the voting. I disagree with the given rules. A weapon rating vote shouldn't just be about the end result.
I'm asking for a in depth and verbose vote, which, as Bopp and Fehzor said, is particularly difficult to agree on. Soooo whatever then.
"That's what I'm arguing about; Radiants and stuff should be a part of the voting. I disagree with the given rules. A weapon rating vote shouldn't just be about the end result."
For swords, the only things that would change about voting on 4*s as opposed to 5*s is Silent Nightblade would be significantly worse off (since only Acheron got the buff, not the rest of the line), Hunting Blade has a different explanation, and Faust rules all. For bombs, almost nothing is changed at all besides Vortexes and Mist bombs being much smaller so their usefulness is more debatable. Almost everything else follows suit from the 4* to 5* besides Avenger and like....... uhhh...... yeah...
Also, if we're putting votes in for Celestial Vortex, count me in for a 3.
"Looking for someone to give their input on the Celestial Vortex, since it released just not long ago."
If you happen to care for my input, I'd say the bomb is in the same boat as Graviton Vortex. It is average-at-best because it is only notable for its usefulness as a Vortex bomb. Electron Vortex is a direct upgrade due to its Shock allowing stronger crowd control and giving you significantly more options after the bomb has been placed. Additionally, Obsidian Crusher is also a direct upgrade due to its nice Poison making it an anti-healer bomb on top of it already being a Vortex bomb; the poison effect also makes it safer to use because after enemies are randomly spread from the explosion, they will do reduced damage. Celestial Vortex is simply a Graviton Vortex but tacks on a tiny bit more damage after the explosion, and I believe it's generally thought that Vortex bombs are not used for their damage, but rather their extreme support. Strong Fire is quite interesting but actually does not add very much damage overall (considering how long it takes to charge a Vortex bomb) and in 99% of situations, both Electron Vortex and Obsidian Crusher are in all ways better than Celestial Vortex. I'm not sure if Celestial Vortex affects flying enemies; if it doesn't, then it is effectively useless against enemies such as Kats or Scarabs, but again, not sure about Celestial Vortex. Honestly, the only place I would see this bomb being more useful over both Electron Vortex and Obsidian Crusher is Dreams and Nightmares, but consistently charging Vortex bombs in that mission is basically suicide. I guess you could also use it to pick off weakened enemies to save like half a second-- I know personally I can not one-shot Zombies at Depth 25 with my Voltedge, they take one more hit to die; I guess tacking on that strong Fire would let them die on their own so I don't have to chase after them, but then again, I'd rather use Electron Vortex for that because it has the same effect and is a better choice overall. Because of all this, I'd personally give the bomb a 3, the same as I gave Graviton Vortex, and for the same reasons: "This is just one of those borderline bombs that are useful because its niche is so good, but the bomb itself isn't actually good when other options exist."