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More MSI

4 replies [Last post]
Mon, 09/28/2015 - 14:40
Fangel's picture
Fangel

MSI is an interesting stat buff, however it's only available in 3 armors and a sprite perk. There's so much that can be done with this that I'm sure plenty of players have overlooked, but I just kinda came up with this in the shower.

And before anyone says "bad fangel, you can't think that way", when you have a MSI armor/helm/perk on, your individual weapons do say "movement speed increase" on them.

Make weapons and armors give specific MSI buffs. Instead of "Movement Speed Increase: low", it could be something like "Sword Movement Speed Increase: low". This opens up a huge range of balancing to various weapons and armors. For example, give mad bomber "bomb movement speed increase: low" per piece. This makes it so that whenever you're holding a bomb, you get faster movement. You can also put this on specific weapons, such as "movement speed increase: medium" on cutter lines.

Here's a quick list of potential item changes:

    Armors
  • Mad Bomber Suit/Helm - Bomb Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Chaos Cowl/Cloak - Bomb Movement Speed Decrease: Low
  • Kat Claw Cowl/Raiment - Sword Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Kat Eye Cowl/Raiment - Gun Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Kat Hiss Cowl/Raiment - Bomb Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Shadowsun Slicker/Stetson - Gun Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Swords

  • Cutter lines - Movement Speed Increase: Medium
  • Spur lines - Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Guns

  • Antigua Lines - Movement Speed Increase: Low
  • Bombs

  • Shard Bombs - Movement Speed Increase: Medium

I would say a few more movement speed decreases here, but the weapons I want to put them on are already good as is (sealed swords/troikas giving MSD low, BAB giving MSD low, magnuses having MSD low).

Mon, 09/28/2015 - 18:54
#1
Ariave's picture
Ariave
hmmm

Do the weapons have to be held out? or just in one of your slots as you go through the missions?

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 06:05
#2
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
.....

I would say have the weapons held out.
This would greatly change how the game is played and pull some of the overshadowed weapons back out of the dark.

I would also have to say that a movement speed buff be given to the Catalyzer series.

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 09:59
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Lol, I really don't want chaos set to make you less mobile. It seems like it would be a good idea to balance it but it also makes it harder to use bombs with swords and guns, which is a pretty big deal for bombs.

Giving the other armors and items MSI would be great- in particular, mad bomber set could really use this.. I do have a few suggestions that agree with what you're pushing for however-

(non black) Kat cowls and raiments- should get MSI: Med to their weapon type. Low makes them compete with black kat set far more than med does, and they need all the help they can get with this.

All class armor (except new gunner/seerus)- Should give MSI: low to their weapon type, if shadowsun does that. This would be a pretty swell balance tweak.

Mad bomber- should also get MSI: med for bombs, or some other balancing factor. Assuming chaos doesn't get changed with this, it would need something really special to keep up with chaos and this could be it.

All pure defense armors (skelly, jelly, grey feather, those)- should give MSI: low and probably get a third status resist and 6 bars of status resist instead of 4, though this isn't the place to flesh out a plan for defensive armors.

Mercurial (not demo) Mail/Helm- Should get MSI: med or even high. It was the original pure MSI armor, the big shabang, and it's kind of gone into obscurity thanks to black kat and mercurial demo and sprite perks and all of that. I miss feeling ok about my mercurial armor...

Armor of the fallen- Could be fixed using MSI. I've always dreamed of armor of the fallen becoming like black kat...
-Same bad defensive stats as black kat
-Full fire instead of ice resistance
-MSI: High
-ASI: low
-Damage vs fiends: same negative boost it currently has

I'll leave it at that. I've probably already gone way too far :P

Thu, 10/01/2015 - 12:02
#4
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Sorry for being kinda slow to respond

Was busy being sick and feeling miserable... And running dreams and nightmares but still.

But yes, with weapons you need to be holding them out to gain MSI. For example, cutters would only grant MSI when you hold the cutter out, however if you're wearing the kat claw set as well you're get a massive +4 MSI is you swap from a gun to a cutter.

Also catalyzer having MSI: low/med might work. Since the gun is about positioning MSI is helpful.

Now onto responses to Fehzor's post!
Bombs being less mobile with chaos won't really be noticed unless you're trying to be primarily a bomber in chaos (which is something I want to move away from). You don't really see the difference in MSI at low, and barely will see it at med - however if you are bothered by the MSD on chaos then chaos bombers should use shard bombs as they negate the negative. If you want to be using other bombs then going down a better class line would be good.

Don't want to go too crazy with the current boosts. From what I can see the kat sets are supposed to be balanced with the other class sets, but give a little of each to it. Giving MSI: low per piece will suit that, but again it will lock you into using the class weapons. They also give more specialized resist than other class sets do (often having more normal defense instead), so they work better in that area.

For the class armor buff I'd say give one set from each set that MSI bonus. I only applied it to shadowsun because I figured ASI sets shoot faster so it doesn't matter if they miss a shot every so often, whereas damage gunner sets typically need to land every hit (swiftstrike exists but I'm assuming we're using 5* shields here). For gunners ASI is more useful than damage, thus buffing a "standard" damage set is good.
On the same train of thought, damage for swordies is often more powerful than ASI. You're in everything's face, so if they flinch or die more then you'll be alive longer. Because of this vog cub would gain the MSI.
Lastly, bombs rely heavily on CTR. So we could give MSI to the bombtastic set to make it not a bad choice for bombers who don't like the idea of status vulnerability (alternatively keep it a mad bomber-only thing).

Defensive armors are fine and dandy right now. MSI is often a more offensive stat anyways, thus why plate mail sets have some sort of slowness to them (ASD for standard sets, MSD + ASD for ancient). You can still activate MSI abilities via using certain weapons.

Standard mercurial is fine as is. I don't want to give huge MSI bonuses across the board necessarily, but give more options to what has MSI. Mercurial is the shock/piercing resist armor, and it does both of those very well. It drops an additional status resist for MSI, which isn't a bad idea.
I will say that if ever we get special effects planted onto armors that mercurial be given a backfire barrier-esk MSI for 5 seconds when shocked(2.5 seconds per piece). Ho joy that would be amazing to see how fast you go with MSI: max (holding cutter/shard bomb) + speed boost + actual backfire barrier.
To completely counter what I said in the previous mini-paragraph, defensive sets could have MSI... But only if they follow this pattern. Give MSI: low and hack off a status resist.

Fallen set I think is fine, however some sort of weapon MSI might be okay to put onto it. Fallen doesn't need to be a powerhouse since it's got a fair amount of status resists.
However it might be kinda neat if it got the weapon-MSI increase at random, so sometimes it would be swords, sometimes guns, sometimes bombs. Makes for a bit of a... Fiendish situation.

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