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Are Fiends and the Swarm related?

10 replies [Last post]
Tue, 09/29/2015 - 07:48
Umbra-Lunatis's picture
Umbra-Lunatis

---Spoilers. Proceed at own risk if 8-2 or below---

Hear me out.

Those of us that have completed The Silent Legion are aware that Arkus was transformed into a Trojan that can summon Greavers, a type of Fiend. Fitting, as by the time you fight him, he is also. However, as you progress through a couple devilite chair-tornadoes to get to get to the Statuary in the first place, we can argue that the fallen Arkus was driven mad and corrupted by Fiendish energy.

But it goes deeper.

Greavers are, in essence, large Silkwing-type creatures wearing masks with a single eye on them. These Fiend-class monsters are a force to be reckoned with in groups, but the nature of their masks is unsettling, as there is only one other entity that is represented by a single, unblinking eye.

But to be fair that's speculation on my part.

However. The Swarm's legions of shadowy monsters contain many types of foes. Construct, Undead, Beast, Slime, even Undead. One class of monster is absent from this list. Because of the Fiends' absence from the Swarm's pull, it can be inferred that Fiends are unaffected by corruption of the Swarm, as they are already demons, embodiments of corruption.

How does one tie this all together?

The answer lies in the apparent madness of the Gremlin overlord, King Tinkinzar. We have seen that Gremlins are certainly not immune to Swarm infection. Furthermore, if we infer from the Darkfang Munition Factory's Echo Stone that King Tinkinzar was the Swarm's creator, and that he also went mad due to unknown reasons, we can draw parallels between a certain Arkus and the King of the Gremlins. Due to this, I'm convinced that Underworld influence was present when Tinkinzar made the Clockworks, and thus corrupted Tinkinzar and eventually led him to create the Swarm.

Thoughts?

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 09:50
#1
Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
um

I remember seeing this exact thing awhile ago
maybe not, sometimes I dream of things and they happen

ill just add direct things
greavers, we have no evidence of them being silkwings with masks, and are likely not wearing anything
also gorgos have one eye, and neither of those enemies look like they have a swarm eye

we are also not sure of the architect being tinkinzar or him making the swarm
we are only left to guess who the architect is
the architect RELEASED the swarm, we are not told who made it

about fiends being uncorrputed, theyre buggy and really powerful as is, OOO probably decided they would be too hard added into the already difficult mix of so many other types

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 10:41
#2
Crazee-Pi-Forum's picture
Crazee-Pi-Forum
Remember, don't shoot food.

Devilites throw one object at a time. Knights have two arms. Two plus one equals three. Eurydice ate a sandwich. Sandwich has eight letters. Eight minus three equals five. Nick has one pipe and one gorgeous mustache. One plus one equals two. Five minus two equals three. Do you know what has three of something? Sega with Three Rings. Sega has four letters in it. There are three rings. Four minus three equals one. What has one eye? Swarm turrets or whatever they're called. Swarm has five letters in it. There are two snipes. Five minus two equals three. Do you know what has three sides? That's right, a triangle. Do you know what the secret meaning behind triangles are? From these facts we can only conclude one thing:

SPIRAL KNIGHTS

IS

A PRISMATIC BOLTED VEE.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 11:20
#3
Cyphereau's picture
Cyphereau

...Hear me out...

No

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 16:10
#4
Bignastycupcake's picture
Bignastycupcake
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

No, they're not. Fiends have literally nothing to do with the void, and the story never mentions it, and it shows no actual evidence or not. Fiends are already hellish creatures, and the void is pure nothingness, being part of the void wouldn't make any sense, either that, putting them in the void is just too hard for players...because face it, greavers/fiends in general just suck. If fiends had something to do with the void....then who is Herex? Herex is the one who created the void, which is stated in a mission somewhere, he's been through the void, it clearly doesn't affect him, and if it did, he wouldn't be going through the core, perfectly fine just waiting for us. Tinkinzar has again...nothing to do with the void. In-fact, he's barely mentioned in the game, and when he is, it's just about him yelling at other gremlins, or saying he's a crazy being. If Tinkinzar had something to do with the void, Herex, wouldn't be the one to open the core, leave the Nine, and leave artifacts specifically stating that he's talking about the void, makes no sense for Tinkinzar to be apart of the void. I'll also put this out there: any fiend is corrupted already, they don't live in the void, they live in Hell, which is the Highways we go through in the clockworks sometimes, that's their own little spot. Look at Tortodrones, or Trojans, they're both corrupted, and putting a corrupt creature in the void, makes no sense. Vanaduke, he's basically corrupt, read the story of the Firestorm Citadel. It said he went crazy, and he basically just torched Almire. Torin, I think it is? Also mentions something about Vanaduke, he say's that before Vanaduke went corrupt, he had a nice family, and a great life, then it was ruined, and Torin, along with his family was killed by Vanaduke. That is all that remains of him (or her? Like I said, can't remember exactly who says this) Which is a big reason we don't see these creatures in the void.

As for greavers wearing masks.....don't know where you got that from. They really don't look like they're wearing masks. And if they were Silkwings in disguise...Silkwings must grow quite a bit very easily then, almost on command.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 18:24
#5
Umbra-Lunatis's picture
Umbra-Lunatis
I'm surprised that none of you have noticed the masks.

if this isn't a mask I don't know what is.

http://imgur.com/XKwMGcg

As for Vanaduke, he's a Fiend-type through praying to a demonic entity, and as we see in Firestorm's Shadowlair, he also becomes corrupted by the Swarm, transformed into Darkfire Vanaduke. Just a thought.

As for Swarm-themed Fiends, the difficulty they would add to Swarm hordes is a fair point. However, because of ambiguities regarding the origin of the Swarm, we cannot safely assume that Herex created the Swarm any more than Tinkinzar or Undercorp did.

Just theories.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 18:33
#6
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
:/

Here is a question, how do you know that swarm infects? Because when we go through the unknown passage, knights are immune to its effect. In fact, the only thing the swarm seems to do is:

-Making our knights dizzy (stuns)
-Regrowing indefinitely
-Have no proper physical form until it takes up one of the clockwork denizen's

So here is my theory to the nature of the Swarm:

-Swarm is the counterpart of the core, or rather the dreamer, while the core and its pure energy powers much of cradle, the swarm is the chaotic negative energy that seek to consume and assimilate anything it could find. This is confirmed in Dreams of nightmares. And if you read any of the Alpha team audio logs, they stated that the swarm caused an injury that felt like 'both ice and fire', this is hint that Swarm is a form of unstable energy and its chaotic nature is the perfect counter for the core. And since the fiends are also built up of dark negative energy, it would only be natural for the swarm to avoid them like a plague.

-The swarm does not infect, if it did, then we would have all be dead by now, my theory is that the Swarm first kill you and then assimilate your memory and all of your body, then, given enough time, the swarm will be able to produce a replica of you, hence explaining why the swarm enemies can infinitely respawn but none of them are the perfect copy of the original. Have you ever seen a normal lumber with axe?

-Tinkinzar 'created' the swarm can be interpreted in many different way, such is the ambiguity of SK lore, just as I can buy a box of LEGO and 'create' something that is totally unique to me. Who needs instruction anyway?

-Many Tyrants can be mad due to being overly paranoid that one day someone may dethrone them (*hint** hint* Stalin and his purge*hint* *hint*) and we know from the strangers that the Gremlins could have never built the cradle on their own (despite their seemingly endless workforce as they put it) so what kind of GODLY power could compel them to build cradle? The core of course, my personal theory is that Tinkinzar got sick and tired of taking orders from the dreamer and decided to shape cradle in his own unique tyrannical ways. And he harnessed the swarm to keep the core in check.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 19:12
#7
Umbra-Lunatis's picture
Umbra-Lunatis
It may not be the case that

It may not be the case that typical infection is at hand. However, it's used on the wiki referring to void monsters, so I sorta picked it up.
The fact that the Swarm might "avoid" Fiends altogether is an interesting concept. If it was a possible weakness of the Swarm's nature, even more so. Wouldn't mind tossing a few devilites here and there to clean up the unknown passage :P
While the Void monsters are imperfect, it's because of the fact that they are the most powerful incarnations of that monster. The Perma-Frostifurs that spawn during the Maulos battle have the same form as void wolvers, while Void Lumbers are reminiscent of the Ironwood Sentinel. Stuff like that.
I like your theory of Tinkinzar being paranoid before his descent into madness and raising a force to defend himself, just like Vanaduke and even Arkus with their minions. However, I do think that the Gremlin King has become part of the Swarm instead of just harnessing it. You can't harness pure evil as opposed to skeletons and bats.

Again, theories.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 21:06
#8
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
Re: Have you ever seen a normal lumber with axe?

Not personally, but they exist.

Tue, 09/29/2015 - 21:17
#9
Falminar's picture
Falminar

Have you ever seen a normal lumber with an axe?

Ironwood Sentinel.

Then again, it's on fire, huge, and really, really slow. Not sure if it can be considered "normal"...

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 00:01
#10
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
A seemingly one-of-a-kind enemy is anything but normal.

I would rather call that one a Volcanic Ironwood Sentinel. Or perhaps Scorchwood Sentinel, for short.

The original, default Ironwood Sentinels only appeared in the beta, but I consider their existance legitimate and canon.

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