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Revival system ideas

7 replies [Last post]
Fri, 10/02/2015 - 12:53
Fangel's picture
Fangel

Sort of inspired by Umbra-Lunaris' post, I had a sort of vivid clump of ideas for a revival system. Let's jump right to it shall we?

Health Share
Least likely of the bunch but still worth mentioning. Players use a percentage of their health and the same amount of pips are given to the player who is being revived. This can be anywhere from 10% to 50%.
PROS: Limited resource, not infinite revives (however it can be quite a lot), sense of teamwork.
CONS: One bad player can break down a party via needing a lot of revives, thus taking away the party's health as a whole. Sometimes accidental revives happen when in combat and walking over a friendly player's body.

Life Essence
One of my personal favorite ideas - add a new rarity called a "life essence" into the drop table. This item can only be used to revive teammates, and will only revive them to full red health (30 pips max). They are activated like old health revives.
To keep things in line we would reduce the drop rate of sparks of life by 60%. Life essences would then drop 45% more often than current sparks of life do.
You can also purchase life essences from the supply depot at 15 life essences for 150 energy.
PROS: Limited resource, not infinite revives. Players would want to revive other players as they have no use for the rarity themselves. Would allow newer players to play with veterans on higher difficulties because veterans wouldn't feel bad reviving the newer player.
CONS: Will be harder on solo players since sparks of life would become more rare. Newer players will also have more trouble until they get a good supply of sparks/essences. Might make the game a bit "too easy" for parties, as you will probably have hundreds of team ERs in your collective pockets.

CPR
Yup, CPR. This idea is loosely similar to the Castle Crashers revive system. You run up to the fallen knight, interact with the attack button (second attack confirms, shield you can exit the revive), and doing so will revive them after X attacks. Doing this will not take away any of your health, however it does make you vulnerable for the duration of the revive. If you land the attack buttons correctly (little minigame based on timing) then you will grant your revived player more health when they revive - spamming attack buttons will revive them at 1 pip per tier. Perfect timing revives players at (33% + 2 pips per tier) health.
PROS: Gives a great sense of teamwork, gives a sense of urgency to reviving in combat, health revives have a tier system. Does not hurt a party if you have a weak link.
CONS: Limitless revives. If not explained too well many new (and old!) players would simply revive players at minimum health, and go down again fast. Not something you can do in the middle of combat, and enemies may stand on your teammate's body. Players may also try to abuse revives by killing themselves and having another player revive them with more health. We'd probably have to remove the ER if this was implemented.

Defibrillators
Shock paddles! Defib units would drop in the clockworks as a consumable item. When a player goes down, you walk near them and activate a defib unit. The defib unit would then deploy on the ground, shock enemies nearby, or if they are within 2 tiles of a player they will shock the player back to life with 50% health. This can jump to multiple players but only revives 50% health maximum (two players within 2 tiles will revive at 25% each if they are both down, if a player goes down next to a defib unit after it is spent all 50% health it will revive them for 5% health). After 7 seconds the defib unit will self-destruct, shocking enemies around it (even shock immune enemies!).
PROS: Extremely limited resource - up to a maximum of 12 revives per party if lucky. Perhaps add them to the consumable shop at Basil and provide a crown sink. Wouldn't dig into player's pockets often, and since it's very difficult to use to revive yourself (have to die within 7 seconds of placing the consumable) there's no reason to not use it on an ally.
CONS: Might be too rare. Players may not know it can be used for revives and instead drop them for attacking enemies. Would hog already precious inventory space (maybe give them a slot similar to the vitapod's). Not able to be found in places where you might really need them, such as Dreams and Nightmares.


Those are all the potential revive ideas I have off the top of my head. What other kinds of revive system could work in the game? What do you think about these ones?

Fri, 10/02/2015 - 13:22
#1
Nanonizer's picture
Nanonizer
Health Share - Yeah, cool

Health Share - Yeah, cool idea but recruits with 5 health pips can abuse this by restoring lots of HP while providing nothing but being a mobile Spark of Life.

Life Essence - Yeah, also keep in mind that trolls might abuse this by repeatedly falling in enemies hands as a Recruit rank.

CPR - Yeah, but trolls appear here again. They can revive people with 1 HP pip and kill themselves and destroy the whole team.

Defibrillators - Fantastic, but remember about trolls. Trolls might use ONLY to deal shock effect on enemies and ignore teammates.

So, revival methods you suggested are fine, but please bear in mind that trolls may exploit their downsides in an easy way. You can also complain about a player for "Mass trolling".

Fri, 10/02/2015 - 14:25
#2
Umbra-Lunatis's picture
Umbra-Lunatis
I'm liking the ideas, and

I'm liking the ideas, and thanks for the shoutout.

Health share is actually ok until you run into bad players, at which point it's still technically ok because you can decline to revive them if you really need to.
Life Essence is pretty versatile. Only thing I'm worried about is decreasing Spark droprate; they're rare enough to find as-is, and the percentage of Spark drops from boxes would decrease without lowering the chances in the first place due to another more common item being added. Though maybe Sparks of Life could be adjusted to only revive the user?
CPR is pretty sound, but it overlooks one thing: lag. As SK is by nature a slightly laggy game, it woukd take a bit of tinkering to make sure the player could sustain rhythmic presses in a party of four. Otherwise good, but limitless revival is still an issue.
Defibrillators sound like they could be useful as a pickup rather than something like the Vitapod. After all, what fun would it be if you had everything else you needed plus free party revives? :P But no, definitely a standard pickup. As for Dreams and Nightmares, maybe it could be prevented from purchase in the Lobby, but as the only usables you can possibly get are through luck from prizewheels and the final room (other thread), i think that it would be ok to put them in as a possible Elevator bonus.

Nano, you have a pretty good point about system abuse, but always remember you can kick someone from a party if they start doing that kind of thing. Are trolls common in Spiral Knights? I've carried a few people through levels, but none of them ever seemed to deliberately sabotage the run.

Fri, 10/02/2015 - 16:53
#3
Trats-Romra's picture
Trats-Romra

Health share and Life Essence is good to me.
CPR seems a bit complicated.
Defibrillators are cool. It remembers of a idea that poped on my head: Thunder punch: normal-damage meelee weapon, two strong forward hits. The charge would cause the same effect of a Spark of Life: Revive fallen player and inflict damage and stun to near enemies. A movement decrease on the charge could be some sort of balance. Maybe inflict self-stun too.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 11:11
#4
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Eh

You seem to overestimate how many people troll. If people are reviving you and trying to troll you via revives then they aren't doing a very good job of trolling because you're alive. If they keep dying you can just not revive them like in the old days, and if they complain then it's their fault for going down.

As for the defibs I do want them to drop as consumables, however then we're really fighting over what consumables to bring. Do I bring health capsules + remedy capsules + defibs and only one offensive type of item, or do other things? Consumables are dropped and supposed to be used, so leaving pretty much every consumable behind for health + remedy + defib kinda kills the idea of choice. Having a separate slot for "special" consumables would be nice, with a defib unit being the first consumable of that type. Still can only carry 3 of them max (or even make special ones only allow you to carry one), but they'll still consumed upon use. Heck, make these special consumables party-wide, have them drop really rarely. The consumable doesn't directly benefit you, but rather your party, so it's good to have it. Perhaps add team speed/defense/attack up consumables as well that are classified the same way, but only affect the rest of your team. That alone could bring back the essence of teamwork we've been missing.

And good point with the CPR timing. Potentially the timing would be client sided as it's essentially a client mini-game? Either that or have each successive "attack" button push have a smaller and smaller time window to get the bonus health.

Also Trats, it's bad to have a revive/healing mechanism tied to a weapon in Spiral Knights. The CPR method I say is one that I'm not really sure would fit into the game 100%, as it would make small fights trivial if you have at least one competent player to revive other after they go down and it's completely free and infinite, however that isn't to say it wouldn't make big fights stressful.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:10
#5
Cyphereau's picture
Cyphereau

Tl;dr

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:30
#6
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

They'd all work except the health shares which we've mostly already seen in action, though the defibs would probably be best.

Suggestion for the defibs- have it spawn 1/3 as often as pills, and have it only stack to 1 instead of 3. If it's too rare, then it doesn't really effect every run very much, kind of like the various mecha knight kits and turret summoning pickups. If it's common then it becomes far too powerful, as you can stack 3 of it and your party ends up with 8 revives per person or more if defibs drop along the way.

Tue, 10/06/2015 - 11:29
#7
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Eh

Not against defibs being rare, just that if they're too rare it's not worthwhile to grab them. I do agree that having them be limited to 1 per person at a time would be a good balancing act, but then it doesn't always encourage active reviving of your team. I suffer from "what if i need it later"ism, so I'd be one of those people who wouldn't use the defib immediately even if it is probably the sounder way to do it (I try to lose my ER before using pills for crying out loud).
I would say either have them be special-consumable level of rarity for drops (recon flare, artillery strike, etc), and let them stack up to 3, or make them mixed in with regular consumables and only allow 1 per person.
I do think having a separate "specials" container would be good for a thing like this, so we can have a dedicated spot for a defib unit, and potentially even other health items... Like, say, you could pick up an item that restores the ER of everyone in your team except yourself.

Creating a "team consumable" slot would be great and allow for a whole lot of "team consumable" customizations to occur. Kinda got this idea from the "Crew Bonuses" from Payday: The Heist, where you could equip a bonus that applies to everyone on your team except yourself.
Making these "team consumables" drop a fair amount but in an "old drop system" sort of way (i.e., anyone can pick them up, you can drop them on the ground for teammates) would promote teamplay and strategy.
But alas, this is a "revival system" suggestion, not a "team consumable" suggestion. I could make the latter into its own full-blown suggestion if it sounds worthy enough.

Also tl;dr of the first post: read it you spineless hairmonkey.

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