Spiral Knights - Fix Bomb-Proof bosses.

Fix Bomb-Proof bosses.

9 replies [Last post]

Sun, 10/04/2015 - 21:29

Gunnerific

As most bombers know. It is a feat to be able to do either Snarb or RT with only your bombs.
The Collector is also fairly difficult for lower tiered bomber due to the miniscule radius.

I Couldn't say much about Vana because the only possible way to kill him with ease it a blitz Shiv combo. Otherwise it would require a great deal of skill, regardless of weapon type you use.

This, I believe is a deterance for new players to use persue a Bomber setup. But most levels are well built to be difficult for all weapon types. But smaller maps are also rather difficult for bomber more so for the new bomber who aren't adept in dodging and their rather slow charge times.

I'm no level designeer, I'm just an observant player who wants to point this out to OOO. Thank you.
But I'm sorry if this has been brought up before. No harm in bumping a thread with another thread. Right?

Sun, 10/04/2015 - 23:29

Thunder-The-Bright

algorithms are the solutions to any problem.

bombs aren't meant for single target DPS, they are meant for large crowds. that's why they don't shine in boss fights. I don't think this brings newbies away from bombs, since boss fights are 3% of your experience in the game.
personally I think big damage numbers and the fact that bombs have to be charged are good enough to make bombs less appealing than guns and swords. that being said, if you start using bombs right, they are a really nice addition to any arsenal, so just spread the bomb love and someone will respond.

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 00:06

Gunnerific

@Static The Shiny

'bombs aren't meant for single target DPS, they are meant for large crowds.'
Tell that to those who charge their sword instead of using it on 'single targets'.

I Have to dissagree that boss fight are a miniscule portion of your playing time. Most arcade maps have a lower outpay than boss mission. Perhaps It's the new-comming bomber's fault to delve himself into boss mission?

Still thats a limiting experience. There should not be A way to fight bosses but all of them.

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 06:54

Thunder-The-Bright

algorithms are the solutions to any problem.

charge attacks in general hit multiple times, so they can be used to kill one target, especially if it's a lumber or a trojan. I think I've rarely seen anyone charging their brandish to kill a single slug, but in that case we can agree.

bosses are in boss missions that have 3-5 floors, and taking as example FSC, it's 5 minutes out of a 45 minutes dungeon, and you probably brought a blitz.
speaking of that, yeah, there is no one way to fight a boss, you can use all the weapons you have in your arsenal, but everyone and their mother takes a blitz to vana or goes for watering duties. you can fight vana without it, heck zeddy did it with shard bombs, but blitz is the way to go. the weapon family can be used very effectively against other bosses too, except snarby because of the damage cap that you reach in 4 shots.

probably unrelated, but: boss missions are run mostly because 1)they have boxes that have radiants, and now we have something that pays more, and 2) they are the same every time, so they become easy over time. you know where and what monsters spawn, where they spawn, who to kill first, what's the main strategy for a puzzle, ect. arenas, graveyards and deconstruction zones should give a reasonable amount of loot, because of the hordes of monsters spawning (yes the main loot givers are monsters not boxes, except for rarities, but at this point everyone should have ungodly amounts of shinings), and are fairly randomized, and bombs do a great job there.

also, having a bomb really helps clearing mini jellies in JK, and they can be of some help if the respawn timers on the scuttlebots screw you over in RT (happened exactly one time to me, and I played for a while), so bombs can be used in bossfights, but if it's not DR, it's not going to clear a single mob in 5 seconds.
oh yeah, DR is one of the best weapons in the game in terms of versatility, please don't use that as an example. just a preemptive.

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 08:40

Holy-Nightmare

......

Bomb's used to have a good option for single target damage but that was changed long ago (RIP old shard bombs)

Short of the Royal Jelly, Maulos, and Herex most bosses are painfully difficult to fight with bombs.
In fact there is one particularly long fight that pretty much seals a player's choice to abandon bombs (Toy Soldiers mission and the battlepods).

We need more choices for bombers as well as instant damage regular combo attacks.

Tue, 10/06/2015 - 12:30

Fangel

Bosses and bombs are eh. You need to have an open target with a lot of monsters showing up. Blast bombs might be effective for fighting Seerus due to the swarms of gremlins that come in, however you need another weapon to take out the battlepods. Bombs are really effective in Dreams and Nightmare's final room, and I expect any bosses that come out of there to also be bomb-weak.

Grinchlin Assault is another "boss" level that likely would be easier with bombs, as long as you don't aggro the puppies... As long as you aren't 100% using bombs. I guess pure bombers have the short end of the stick, acting more as support than anything. That is why you see not that many bombers, because we all want to be the hero, so we grab a sword. It's only after you beat the game that you look towards bombs because now you have weapons that hold their own.

Tue, 10/06/2015 - 14:00

Dibsville

Well?

"It is a feat to be able to do either Snarb"

I don't understand this one; some of the fastest possible Snarbolax times are done solely using Bombs. Vortexing Snarbolax makes the fight an absolute joke, although if you mean for beginners whose only bombs are probably going to be Blast Bomb, Spine Cone, and maybe a vaporizer, then yeah, Snarbolax is pretty damn tough.

With the obvious additions of Jelly King, Ice Queen, Maulos, and Herex, there are quite a few bosses that can be done very effectively with bombs, including but not limited to:

Rabid Snarbolax with vortexes and Dark Briar Barrage
Vanaduke with Dark Retribution and Scintillating Sun Shards/Deadly Splinter Bomb
Seerus with Nitronome/Dark Briar Barrage/Dark Retribution (same as Herex)
Arkus with Dark Briar Barrage
Sputterspark with, like, anything
Dread Velvet with, like, anything

Honestly, the only bosses that can't be wrecked by bombs are:

Razwog and Ironwood Sentinel (you normally don't have access to bombs at these points)
Collector (hard for new people, but Dark Retribution wrecks it)
Snarbolax (hard for new people, but vortexes + Dark Briar Barrage wrecks it)
Roarmulous Twins (legitimately hard)
Red Roarmulous Twins (seriously, is this even possible without dying)
Darkfire Vanaduke (Dark Retribution is brushed off like it's nothing, have fun using Shard Bombs in that fight)
The Big Iron (I'm not sure if Dark Retribution works here, but if it does, then this needs to go on the other list)
Margrel (completely debatable, I find that having the AoEs from bombs and punishing Margrel when it is vulnerable is very effective, but I'll put it on this list)
Tortodrones (their resistance to Minor statuses is what makes this hard)

If I didn't include a boss on the list, it's probably because bombs are just average against them.

So what you're saying is: fix Roarmulous Twins and Red Roarmulous Twins so they're actually somewhat able to be fought, and make it so that bombs are about as similarly effective as Blitz/Gilded Griffon against Darkfire Vanaduke? If so, then yeah, +1.

Wed, 10/07/2015 - 01:11

Thunder-The-Bright

algorithms are the solutions to any problem.

dibs, DR works on the RT, the big iron (although you have to kill the scuttlebots another way, otherwise they'll be a pain), and doesn't work with vana without a good strategy, and even then vana has excellent shadow defense. for vana I would recommand DBB more than any shard bomb.

Wed, 10/07/2015 - 04:07

Vohtarak-Forum

@thunder about the big iron

you can shield bump the scuttlebots to get stuck in the wires in the top corners, so those can be dealt with easily if youre trying the mission pure bomber

Mon, 10/12/2015 - 22:31

Hexzyle

Early bombs are a joke, because they exponentially scale down in power, the less stars they have, unlike swords and guns scale mostly linearly.

Vanaduke is broken with all but a small subset of weapons.

Shard Bombs suffered the typical Three Rings "double dutch" patching, in which they patch two things about an item when one would have been enough (+CTR +DMG for chaos, +Pierce Through +Movement Speed while charging/reloading for Iron Slug, +Explosion reliability +Damage for the Acheron, +Invincitinks +Reduced damage concentration for the shard bombs)

These are your three problems.

Search

Fix Bomb-Proof bosses.