Spiral Knights - New Apocrean Weapons = Soul Stealing Mechanic!

New Apocrean Weapons = Soul Stealing Mechanic!

8 replies [Last post]

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 16:19

Fehzor

A series of weapons based on the Apocrean ability to steal souls.

Sword = "Power"

Normal hits = like a faster, larger brandish that does zero damage but knocks many souls out of enemies.

Charge = destroy all of the souls you've collected, dealing heavy damage to all enemies that have had their soul taken. As a side effect, the sword deals an area of effect around it that deals damage based on the number of souls stolen. If very few souls are stolen, this side effect is almost meaningless.

Gun = "Vision"

Normal hits = like argent peacemaker, but invisible and 3 at a time, spread similar to a shotgun. Each bullet steals souls. No need to reload.

Charge = destroy all souls collected, just like the sword's charge. Grants an attack+speed+defense orb to team mates and the user based on number of souls stolen.

Bomb = "Patience"

Charge = Create a circle on the ground similar to the Apocrean beam. Enemies in this beam-like area have their souls freed.

Each time the bomb is dropped, it destroys souls with its radius increasing from being the size of a 3* vortex bomb to being larger than most 5* bomb radii. This bonus would reset every time a bomb is dropped.

The soul mechanic

Souls travel into the nearest soul stealing weapon. So if I shoot enemies rapidly while the bomber is running around spamming Dexterity and that bomber is closer, their weapon will absorb the souls instead of mine. If no soul weapons are present (e.g. I drop my bomb and switch weapons), the souls fly back into the enemy and no damage is dealt.

All damage dealt is normal, and very high since the knight is going through a lot of trouble to use soul weapons. Optionally, destroying souls could cause fire to that enemy.

Switching weapons releases all of the souls, which then attempt to find a new home, be it a different knight or back into the enemy. This would allow knights to stack all of the souls onto one person, should they choose.

The different weapons would knock out different numbers of souls at different rates, where the bomb would have the highest damage, the sword would have the highest burst damage, and the gun would simply be the most mobile. The rate of damage would be almost double what their regular variants would do, with the bomb being comparable to dark retribution (but neutral to all instead of limited to shadow).

Obsidian weapons would also be able to capture souls, and would grant the user with a small defense orb, based on the health of the souls held. Attacking with the obsidian weapon would damage the souls they obtained with each hit until they were gone, at which point their defense orb would be removed and that enemy would have taken much damage. Hitting enemies with obsidian weapons would not release souls as would hitting enemies with the new weapons described above.

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 21:16

Kian-Slime-Master

I think this would be cool too.

But if the soul.destroying part means you have to pay all the souls you found. I would cut that off.

I would also cut out the switch weapon-release souls effect.

Aside from the above things i said. It's a really cool idea

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 08:04

Fehzor

The idea is to gather souls and destroy them, so you'd normally deal zero damage up until you charged and killed the souls gathered. It's based on catalyzer, but improved to be use able. To not lose the souls gathered wouldn't really make much sense to me.

The weapon switching loss is optional I suppose. It could just let the knight keep them and slowly kill them with whatever other weapons they had? IDK.

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 00:44

Inquistitive-Ego

Objection

three words, BROKEN, GIMMICKY and CONFUSING. At a first glance, a reader finds it extremely hard to follow. At a second glance, a reader finds that a player has been playing to much Kallista in League of Legends and has decided to implement a similar idea. (clarification: the way Kallista's Rend works is that her attacks add a stack of Rend to the opponent, which she can then activate for additional damage, albeit that this method is slower than just throwing ghost spears at them) At yet another glance, the reader realizes that the damage on these weapons would have to be phenomenal to warrant their use; Reason: Knight A brings the sword "power" to the Royal Jelly Palace, and begins collecting souls on the King. Knight B sees that Knight A has brought Power and has a very large amount of stacks on the King, shrugs and unloads a Grim Repeater on the Royal Jelly, ending the fight and invalidating all of Knight A's hard work...

I hope this has been enlightening...

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 04:59

Vohtarak-Forum

it wasnt

that wasnt enlightening
and wasnt helpful either
"broken", answered your own question, just add damage
"gimmicky", thats not a downside, its a reason to get a unique item
"confusing", its very straightforward, i dont see how you would think it was confusing unless you didnt read the OP

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 12:39

Fehzor

@Professor-Ego

OH NO!
...
But really-

What about this is confusing to you or do you mean that it would confuse the player? The only players that would be able to get these would be ones that can beat Apocrea, and they would at least know how it works, and players curiously looking onto them would quickly find out.

The reason it wouldn't be so bad as you say is because of how the scenario you stated should actually play out-

Player A brings power, and collects souls on the king. Player B shrugs and attacks anyway. Player A sees this, and uses the charge from literally anywhere to unleash havoc on all of the nearby jellies, clearing the field of any potential healing that could have occurred. The downside is that Player A could indeed not detonate the attack at all, and end up losing out.. but whose fault is that? Player A literally just had to sit there and charge, for about the same amount of time as it takes catalyzer. No hitting the enemy with the charge necessary to deal the damage.

The weapons would indeed be much stronger than normal weapons when used in conjunction with one another. That's kind of the idea- you have the bomber and sword user whose job it is to steal massive numbers of souls to single/multiple targets respectively, and then you have the gunner, whose job it is to feed into them safely and buff the team. These roles could be interchanged and don't necessarily need one another.

Tue, 11/24/2015 - 15:59

Inquistitive-Ego

Confirmation

I merely meant by the example of the scenario that the build up time it takes without a ton CDR almost invalidates it as weapons that do damage straight away (basically every weapon in the game) can out damage it and unless it a boss or something with similarly large amounts of health/ invulnerability stages, and even then, I'm sorry to say Acheron OP. Yes, I can see that it has some use and might be kinda cool, but can you see people actually using these? As for "gimmicky" I didn't say that I don't like gimmicky items (I use pathfinder armor, I know a thing or two about gimmicky) I was merely saying when was the last time that you saw a winmillion, irontech bomb or heck, even the catalyser? On a final note, what I meant by confusing was difficult to understand on the first run through and strange to use compared to every other weapon in the game (click, things die, the end)

P.S. I apologize for attempting to sound superior, it was 3:00 AM and I was losing to Russians on the League of Legends NA server :P

Tue, 11/24/2015 - 17:30

Jenovasforumchar

you brought me an idea

Your suggestion instantly reminded me of the catalyzers, even before you mentioned it in post #2.

So, why not making it more similar to catalyzers or even give it as suggestion for a catalyzer change?

So basicly the souls will be the cata orbs (which would be a relieable reskin anyway) but with the difference that a soul weapon orbs will orbit around the player instead of the monster.

This will fix one of the main issues with catas: if another team member kills the monster that you was shooting with a soul weapon, then you still can unleash the full force onto the next monster.

The normal shots could even deal at least some damage. Let us say, the damage of an Antigua-type if the soul weapon / cata had only 3 shots. The full glory comes with that immense sniper charge shot.

The orbs or souls that orbit around a player would not disappear while changing weapons, but they will disappear after time - just like the current orbs disappear around monsters after a certain time.

If you have orbs around you and you use a non-soul weapon (non-cata) then the orbs will have no effect and keep flying around you happily.

No exchange of orbs /souls between players.

Morely refering to the opening:
As you mentioned it, the weaponwould make it possible to get you stuck: Imagine you are in a level and have no trowables with you, your pet is a maskeraith with deadly cloak and you have no monsters around you to collect souls. Your only weapons are soul weapons, but you used up all your souls for a monster that you killed a few metres ago.
The problem: in front of you is a switch that requires to get hit to open a gate to continue. Of course there are no oil pots or other throwables that could help out. Since your weapons deal 0 damage, they cant trigger that switch. (Did I mentioned already that I hate catas to do exactly 1 dmg? I HATE IT ~ they still had their charge...) So either at least the soul item's charge attack will deal a base damage without souls, or the normal shots will deal damage. Leaving no damage at all if there are no souls and no enemies, will not work out.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 16:50

Fehzor

@Jenova

I already suggested something like this for the catalyzers but was having a good time thinking of new things like this so I just went ahead and suggested this because writing suggestions is fun for me, also because the catalyzers are only a gun and this would be a full weapon set.

They would not get you stuck as you could still shield bash or throw pots, also it is considered the player apostrophe s fault if they get stuck like that, Zeddy did so against the Roarm Twins using shard bombs and received no help from a GM.

@Ego

Winmillion and Irontech Destroyer are two of my favorite items. I actually use them quite frequently. Winmillion provides lots of range, some burst damage, and the ability to hit switches while irontech has the highest DPS of all the blast bombs, enabling it to take care of crowds with a bit of finesse. They might not be the best items, but they are certainly the items that I want to use. Catalyzer is a different story though.

As for people using these, yes, I do see people using them as long as they function well enough in the right situations. I could also see people using these as trophies.

These weapons are also designed to work with brandishes etc. rather than against them. The gun would do plenty of damage and buff team members, enabling their precious acherons to deal even more damage. The bomb would provide the really huge crowd control that brandishes sorely lack, and the sword would behave similarly (but would work more as a brandish) or would work to start up use of the bomb or gun. It would also be plausible to mix your own brandish into the mix, pulling out your soul weapons and code switching so to speak.

Of course you may not fit into the so called people that I am describing, which are quite few in number.

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New Apocrean Weapons = Soul Stealing Mechanic!