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A Question About Crafting and Buying from Supply Depot

22 replies [Last post]
Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:08
Nitesta's picture
Nitesta

Hey guys, I recently looked at the AH and saw an Acheron with 3 UVs, and it was 550kcr. The UVs weren't that special, so I looked at the Supply Depot and saw that an Acheron costs 3500energy. At first, I thought that was a lot, but then I did some math. I just came here to see if you guys can find any mistakes in my math and which I should do to buy 5 star gear, since i only have 1 5 star shield and 4 4 star other stuffs. Thanks in advance; here goes:

Note: 1 energy is 90cr in my calculations

Item: x3 orbs cost + recipe cost + craft cost
Brandish: 100 energy + 1000cr + 400cr
Nightbld: 200 energy + 4000cr + 1000cr
Silentnbld: 400 energy + 10,000cr + 2,500cr
Acheron: 800 energy + 25,000cr + 5,000cr
+______________________________________________
total: 1500 energy + 40,000cr + 8,900cr
______________________________________________
total: 1500 energy + 48,900cr
______________________________________________
total: 135,000cr + 48,900cr
______________________________________________
total: 183,900cr (Note: Without mats)

Now to take item levelling into consideration: (without radiant fire crystals, since you'll get lvl 1 item from supply depot)

183,900cr + 309 shining crystals + 33 glowing crystals
_____________________________________________
=183,900cr + 350energy*6 (b/c 350e = 50 crystals; lets pretend you had 9 left over from clockworks) + 175 energy (at 175e = 50 crystals)
_________________________________________________
=183,900cr + 2100e + 175e
_________________________________________________
=183,900cr + 2275e
_________________________________________________
= 183,900cr + 204,750cr = 388,650cr
_________________________________________________
= 4,318 to 4,319 energy.

Supply Depot vs Crafting:
3,500 energy vs 4,319 energy --> net difference of 819 energy
OR
315,000cr vs 388,650cr --> net difference of 73,650cr

So, in conclusion, it seems to me that if I do not take into consideration mats and UVs, the Supply Depot is cheaper. Some of you may have known this, but as a newb (technically, since i'm still level 8-2 with minimal gear) find this very interesting. I guess now I can just save up crowns to just buy some gear.

However, it has come to my attention that glowing crystals are really easy to find in the clockworks. If you get 20 glowing from a run at t2 on a good gate, it might take around 9 rounds to get 180 crystals. Also, people have said finding shining crystals is also easy, although I have yet to get as many as I need. If you find around 20 crystals in 1 run thru t3, then perhaps you could do 15 more runs, at a total of 16 runs, and get 320 shining crystals. In this case, you would save yourself from buying 2275 energy's worth of crystals by finding some that aren't too hard to find in the first place. In that case, you would have to spend 3,500 energy (SD) vs 2,044 energy's worth (crafting) to get a 5 star item.

In this second case, you would save around 1,456 energy or 131,040cr, which is more than how much you would save if you bought from supply depot instead of crafting with crystals from the depot - although, time is a factor.

So, in comparing the 2 cases, you have 2,044 energy vs 4,319 energy (both crafting, but the second is where you buy crystals from the depot).

BUT WAIT, there's more! What if instead of buying 1500 energy's worth of orbs, you could travel the clockworks to find them. This would take much more time, and many more Sparks of Life (LOL). In this third case, you basically have to spend 544 energy (2,044 - 1,000) and a whole lot of time.

So, in comparing the first and third cases, you have 4,319 energy vs 544 energy (both crafting, the first where you buy crystals and orbs from the depot and second where you don't).

Results:
Supply Depot Vs Crafting (SD for orbs and crystals) Vs Crafting (SD for orbs only) Vs Crafting (just $$$ and time)
3,500 energy vs 4,319 energy vs 2,044 energy vs 544 energy.

So what it really comes down to: will you spend more time making $$$ or more time getting crystals and orbs? Please reply with what you think about my math (and any corrections to the math and/or style of presentation) and your thoughts on this questions.

REMEMBER: these calculations do not include the 4,000 energy it takes to unbind a 5* item or any UVs.

Thank you once again for your time and attention. I hope you all have a great one!

EDIT: 2 star orbs cost 50 energy for a pack of 3. I think i did put that, but just putting this edit here without editing the other stuff ^ up there because I wrote so much. Alright, take care guys. I'm going to try grinding Rotting Metropolis by rushing through it as much as I can, although there are some fights I have to go through to move to the next segment. I heard of Cold Blood level, but it doesn't give me as much as this does.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:39
#1
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

So... I skimmed through the second half of this...

In general, triple UV's dramatically increase the price of a weapon, even if they're terrible UV's. I've sold a normal 2* Brandish with triple UVs for over 125,000 crowns.

As for your ultimate question, the most efficient way to get orbs (and thus upgrade your equipment) is to do normal clockwork/mission runs, get crowns, use the crowns to buy energy, use the energy to buy from the supply depot. You still have a chance of picking up orbs and other rarities while getting what you need.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 06:55
#2
Bopp's picture
Bopp
discount fire crystals

I haven't checked your math in detail. The total cost of recipes, energy, and crafting fees could be right. For experienced players you should definitely ignore the cost of fire crystals below 5-star. For really experienced players you should also ignore the cost of orbs, especially 5-star ones. So crafting ends up being much, much cheaper than the Supply Depot.

To answer your question, I'll mention Fehzor's standard advice: Radiants and crowns are the real bottleneck, so you should focus on farming them. While you are doing that, you will find enough orbs and other fire crystals.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 08:45
#3
The-Cool-Gamers
I believe you are right

I believe you are right

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 09:31
#4
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

For your specific case, it seems you are working towards getting past the 5* hall of heroes mission.
In this case, you already have 4 4* pieces of gear that you can upgrade.
Logistically, if you want the 5* version of those items, it is cheaper to craft them up than it is to buy the 5* from the supply depot.

If you wanted one from a different crafting line, it will either cost in time or resources. Both are relatively reasonable options at your point in the game.
As Bopp pointed out, crafting is significantly cheaper for veteran players because we have plenty of fire crystals to cut up the cost associated with crafting.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 14:48
#5
Nitesta's picture
Nitesta
thank you all for the quick

thank you all for the quick replies. However, clockwork runs in t3 are a nightmare for me. I hate candlestick. So far I've been doing the Rotting Metropolis mission many times, but there are a lot of fights that I have to fight so I can't rush through them. Also, I have gotten orb drops very rarely, and I just got an elite orb at JK on my steam account knight. So I know it is possible, but I don't know where to get those other orbs.

I just thought it would be more practical to buy orbs with energy, because that is what I've been doing to get to 4 stars. It took such a long time, and I have so much more to go because 5 star costs so much.

EDIT: I just got an Eternal orb. Sigh, 11 more to go.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 15:22
#6
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The majority of items require heating and unique variants to function. A good example of this would be something like ash of agni-

Ash of agni (5*, level 1, no UV) requires +6 ctr to get to max, or both armor pieces and a trinket. = not feasible
VS
Ash of agni (5*, level 10, CTR: Very high) is ready to go without any gear restrictions, trinkets, etc. = over powered

The bulk of the cost lies in getting these two things, radiant fire crystals and unique variants that don't suck, so you really can't afford to budget the 3.5K CE towards crafting costs. Instead, you would want to focus on finding elite/advanced orbs of alchemy when you're new and then transition into farming dreams and nightmares for radiant fire crystals as soon as possible.

This transition is not an easy one and really comes down to just flat out "getting good". During this "getting good" period you're likely to find all of the eternal orbs and shining fire crystals that you will ever need.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 16:12
#7
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

2* orbs cost 50 energy, although that probably doesn't change your conclusion much.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 16:26
#8
Bopp's picture
Bopp
Nitesta

Nitesta, your comments have devolved into "Where can I find orbs of alchemy?" That is a frequently asked question. My prepared answer, including links to data sets and guides, is here. The short answer is: Farm crowns and buy orbs with crowns.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 16:50
#9
Nitesta's picture
Nitesta
Hey, could you guys point me

Hey, could you guys point me to a thread on how to play AH?

Farming crowns takes waaaaay too long, and if I buy orbs, that means that I will need 2,044 energy, according to my math, to go from a 2 star to 5 star normal item. So far, I have ~2kcr, 1 elite orb, and 2 eternal orbs, 41 shining crystals, 4 sparks, and 0 radiant fire crystals.

I have:
1 royal jelly shield 5* at level 3,
a ash tail coat at level 8 and
a ash tail cap at level 9.
I also have a blazebrand at level 6,
a silent nightblade at level 4, and
a dark thorn blade at level 4.
I have a super blaster,
a pulsar,
a prismatic alchemer, and
a shadowtech alchemer. I currently use pulsar and blazebrand.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 17:37
#10
Bopp's picture
Bopp
mission rewards

You know that you get some orbs by playing the missions too, right? You can get up to the 4-star level without much grinding.

I can't help you much on Auction House stuff, because most of what I knew no longer applies. But for starters you can re-sell recipes that are available only at Basil. These are mostly boss item upgrades, but be careful, because some of those don't sell well. For more information, you might search Google (not the forum's built-in search) for something like "auction house guide site:forums.spiralknights.com".

Your weapons are fine. But don't use exclusively elemental weapons. In most areas of the Clockworks you want two damage types, not one. Your shield is terrible. For more advice, try the armor section of my detailed sword guide.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 18:19
#11
Falminar's picture
Falminar
"Farming crowns takes waaaaay too long"

Ask to see if anyone can invite you to The King of Ashes (Vana). As long as you stay alive, you can get lots of crowns fairly quickly.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 19:44
#12
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Even as a Tier 3 Knight, I usually make money through T2 runs. Start at Moorcroft, grab some recipes, and then finish by going through the Royal Jelly Palace or the Ironclaw Munitions Factory. 3* recipes are one of the best investments of the game. If you get the right ones, you can reliably double, if not triple your investment.

Off the top of my head, these are the most profitable...

Dark Chaingun
Kilowatt Pulsar
Flaming Pulsar
Freezing Pulsar
Elemental Blaster
Pierce Blaster
Shadow Blaster
Tundrus
Toxic Catalyzer
Twisted Snarble Barb
Twisted Targe
Lightning Capacitor

Some of these reliably sell for ~12,000 crowns. There are others not on this list that can go for between 6,000 and 8,000 on a good day, but usually I don't bother with them.

EDIT**

If you want to play the AH in general, then basically do 2 things. First, buy something that's related to a promo. Ideally not something like the Hallow stuff (which is basically spilling out of everyone's ears at this point), nor should you use things related to repeating events (Apocrea, Tortodrone, Katastrophe). Stuff like Sealed Pauldrons and Spiralhorns are good examples. Second, wait a few months before selling. That's pretty much it. You can take something worth ~30,000 cr during the promo can sell for 80,000 - 100,000 a few months later.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 19:50
#13
Forest-Lord's picture
Forest-Lord
I used to dabble in the arts of buying and selling.

I believe, that if you have the time, buying and selling recipes and other items as @Traevelliath said, then you will get the money to get all of you desired items. Only if you have the motivation and will power to truck through endless grinding, I for one...did not. However, I wish you luck getting all of your desired gear @Nitesta.

Remember, you can't have shiny things without grinding.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 18:34
#14
Katsta
Thanks Flow chart for pointing that thing about 2 star orbs

Thanks Flow chart for pointing that thing about 2 star orbs. Thank you Traevelliath for your information. I made the mistake of buying 4 star recipes and now the only way i can think to sell them is bid them to 10k since i've wasted money posting them on AH twice.

Also, Haunted-Soul, what do you mean you couldn't go through all the grinding? What did u end up doing?

Also I want to stay a F2P player.

(this is Nitesta btw. This is my alt)

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 20:31
#15
Wqkipedia's picture
Wqkipedia
@Nitesta

If you are going to grind to get the supply depot weapons, you might as well just buy the expansion (costs 3200E). If you get it you can speed run it three times to get the Perfect Mask of Seerus (without having to grind shinings) and you will also get two 5* weapons.
Anyways, I would just recommend grinding until your fingers and eyes fall off. Get a few skilled friends or guild mates to help you with FSC. Another good shining grinding mission is the first floor of In Cold Blood. The floor is mostly beasts and you can skip most of it and run for the boxes.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:11
#16
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Start on a lower difficulty

Sounds like you're having a few problems.

    A) You're having trouble finding orbs of alchemy.
    B) You're having trouble in tier 3 of the clockworks.
    C) You need more crowns.

There's different solutions to each - orbs of alchemy are rare drops and if you're trying to get them it's best to farm for crowns for energy to buy them from the depot. If you have too much time and are up for a lot of grinding, then specific levels are great for finding certain orbs. Tier 2 bosses work great for elite orbs of alchemy, and speedrunning the first depth of the mission "Sewer Stash" will often drop elite or advanced orbs. Tier 2 arcade is also a great place to farm for advanced orbs.
Eternal orbs drop in abundance in tier 3. When tier 3 becomes your norm then you'll be drowning in eternal orbs of alchemy and shining fire crystals. As of this post I have 402 eternals and 44,973 shining fire crystals. They just become an endless resource after you finish your first gear set that requires them.

Now, in tier 3 of the clockworks enemies do get a bit more aggressive. If you're having trouble there I would recommend farming tier 2 missions, preferably bosses or arcade gates with arenas (for profit), or levels you have trouble with (candlestick keeps, likely compounds). Once you can reliably beat tier 2 levels on elite difficulty, jump back into tier 3, but start on the "advanced" difficulty. You'll get less drops but once you get the hang of enemies you can pump that up to elite and rake in the delicious rewards!
If advanced is too hard then you can always jump down to normal. If normal is giving you problems then I'd say go back to tier 2 or try to find a few talented party members to tag along with you. Prioritize survival if you have a strong teammate.

Lastly, getting crowns is best achieved via boss strata. You get bonus crowns after getting enough tokens to buy a weapon or armor, which you can then sell to a random Stranger merchant for some extra money. Higher star level = more crowns.
The auction house used to be much more profitable - selling materials had meaning when we all didn't have hundreds of each, and boss recipes were valuable because most players only could go on so many runs a day searching for them. Now a lot of it is UVs and costumes/accessories. If you don't have UVs, costumes, or accessories, then for the most part you're kind of out of luck without some starting funds and hoping to snag items for low prices and sell them at a higher - but still reasonable - price.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:53
#17
Nitesta's picture
Nitesta
Thank you for the wonderful

Thank you for the wonderful responses. I'll try my best to grind for stuff, but I kinda am short in time most of the time.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 01:07
#18
Rodent-Queen's picture
Rodent-Queen
I'll come along with ya

I'll come along with ya Nitesta - I need to grind, I so rarely get eternals it's not even funny XD

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 17:11
#19
Nitesta's picture
Nitesta
BTW, how do I check which

BTW, how do I check which threads I've replied in so that I can know when the threads been updated?

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 18:49
#20
Bopp's picture
Bopp
you just check

I don't know, other than: Visit the forums every day, see which threads have been updated, and read the new posts.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 06:49
#21
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

"how do I check which threads I've replied in so that I can know when the threads been updated?"

This forum does not have that built-in functionality.
There are ways to set up a crawler to auto-check a list of forum threads, but they take some coding know-how to do so.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:41
#22
Falminar's picture
Falminar
Just view the forum sections you know you replied in

And see if the specific threads have the "Updated" sign on them.

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