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Fatigue System

7 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/10/2015 - 23:13
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight

Although the mist system was clearly worse than what we have now, it did have some advantages.
1. It forced people to buy energy to progress quickly through the game. This throttles the rate at which people can eat through the rather meager amount of content in SK's main storyline.
2. It encouraged people to not spend so much time playing video games. This inevitably leads to less grinding and slows crown inflation. Ethically, it also encourages people to do other things in their spare time.
3. It offered incentive for people to buy energy with $$$.

I propose a fatigue system which would tap into some of these benefits without bringing back all the baggage that comes with mist.

Knight Fatigue
Every knight has a fatigue bar, which grows with time. When a knight has more than 50% full fatigue, it will start responding more slowly to player commands. At full fatigue, the knight would move as if it were permanently strong-stunned.
The rate at which fatigue increases scales with the fatigue already accumulated. This means fatigue will grow slowly at first, but increase rapidly as it nears the full bar. The rate will also depend on the depth of the clockworks.

- When the player is not logged in, the fatigue automatically declines. It should take ~12 hours for a full fatigue bar to decline to 0.
- In the ready room, fatigue doesn't accumulate at all, but it also doesn't drop.
- In haven (or depth 0) fatigue only increases until the 50% mark. Fatigue above 50% will stay at the same level.
- For depths 1 and above, fatigue will increase until 100%. The rate of growth increases at higher depths and decreases when the knight comes back to a lower depth.

Knights can eat (or use, I guess) an "Energy Biscuit" to reset their fatigue to zero. The biscuits can be purchased from Biscotti for 30,000 crowns each. Kozma also sells them in packs of six for 2000 energy. Biscuits are unbound and can be traded among players.

Weapon Fatigue
Weapons will also have a secret fatigue counter. The counter keeps track of the total damage done by the weapon. When it exceeds some threshold, T, the weapon's base power will be halved. The tooltip summary will also show a red "DEGRADED" message to warn the user.
T should be a pretty large number, like 1 million.

Punch can renew degraded weapons for a cost of 1000*(2^X) crowns, where X is the star level of the weapon. Renewing the weapon will reset its counter allowing it to be used at full power for another T damage.
Punch can also reinforce weapons, which not only renews them, but permanently adds another T to the threshold. Only bound weapons can be reinforced. Weapons can be reinforced up to five times, which means the maximum threshold is 6T damage before having to be renewed. Reinforcing a weapon that has never been reinforced costs twice the price of renewing it. Reinforcing a weapon that has already been reinforced costs twice the price of the previous reinforcement.

For example:
If I had a Voltedge, it would cost 1000*2^5 = 32k crowns to renew it, and 64k crowns to reinforce it.
If I want to reinforce it again, it would cost 128k crowns
Third reinforcement will cost 256k, fourth one will be 512k, final reinforcement would be 1024k.
After the final reinforcement, I would be able to deal 6T (something like 6 milllion) damage with my Voltedge before it degrades. Once it degrades, I will only have to pay 32k to renew it. After renewing it, I can deal another 6 million damage before it degrades.

Unbinding resets all fatigue and all reinforcements.

Armor Fatigue
You can also implement armor fatigue, but armor is not as important in SK, so it's probably not worth it since most veterans won't bother renewing.

Impact
1. Fatigue will curb crown farming while also introducing crown sinks that are tolerable.
2. Fatigue is much more taxing for end-game players than newbies. (Knight fatigue scales with depth. Weapon fatigue determined by raw damage dealt)
3. The biscuits used for knight fatigue will help stabilize energy-to-crown prices. Energy biscuit is a consumable that can only be bought with energy from Kozma and crowns from Biscotti. This establishes a hard reference of (30,000*6)/2000 = 90 crowns/energy for the energy-crown market. When energy prices are to0 high, people will spend more crowns on Biscotti, draining crowns from the market and dropping the prices.

Tue, 11/10/2015 - 23:33
#1
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

If this actually came out I'd probably just stop playing... It just wouldn't be worth fighting through it all.

You could accomplish the same thing with a log in bonus and cheaper rarities on the market, without making people angry. Cheaper rarities means energy is worth more, and log in bonuses become the great equalizer between days played and time invested.

What would you think about doing something with sparks of life/dying? Upon dying your knight must heal in haven for five, ten, twenty and then thirty minutes before going into a dungeon. Sparks of life would double the timer up to twelve hours, but would revive you and let you continue along your way.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 05:08
#2
Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar
thoughs...

1. why do you want it to increase in haven even one Point??

if a Player...
-...stays in haven the whole time doing auctions, then he can do it with a imaginary stun Bonus, too, that never gets aplied in haven (same with movement Speed Change is not active in haven)
-...does ot stay in haven, then he is inside missions anyways and such that haven-debuff does not affect anything

result: it will just empty haven even more without having anything good.

2. weapon fatige:
-get your 10 blitz needles prepared and just walz through everything without taking care.
-if you have no 10 blitz needles, then drop things like mist bombs and kill via Status. just make sure that the bomb Explosion does not hit the Monsters and you have infinite damage.

3. personal opinion:
Nothing against this aspect of forcing Players to remove their playing time, exspecially 12h for a full reset is a good idea since Players can have a daily playing time and when they start playing on the next day, their stats are recovered.

BUT:
it would just make a barrier in the way and it would cause much Anger if you can not represent this with a good taste to the public. right now it sounds:
"you can Play for free now, but after this System you are limited like hell"

really, no good Slogan.

when OOO changed from mist to the current System it was like:

"everything is technically possible to Archive without needing even 1 energy anymore"

better Slogan and the fact that certain rarities are so rare that Players still Need to buy the orbs for the same Price, also the fact that there is now that big Blockade called 'heating system' ... These things are simply overseen by Players after Hearing that 'everything is (theoretically) for free.

tldr: you cant just add a limitating System like this without giving Players a good reason to like it

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 13:05
#3
Deleted-Knight's picture
Deleted-Knight
Yeah, I get it. People won't

Yeah, I get it. People won't like it. People are stupid though. They like hoarding crowns, and driving up prices. They like wasting hours of their day on this game even though they have better things to do.
People who accumulate fatigue quickly tend to be people who make a lot of money. If they aren't willing to shell out some money for unhindered gameplay, the game shouldn't want them to play more. This is because people who are super productive and super stingy are those who drive crown inflation.

Fehzor,
I forgot about the dying/SoL aspect. I don't think it should affect fatigue at all. Dead knights won't get more tired, but neither will they get less tired.
Cheaper rarities won't do much because rarities can be obtained by farming. In order to stabilize the market, you need a consumable that a lot of end-game players would want, which can only be purchased from NPCs. People should only be allowed to obtain the item by removing crowns out of the system.
Login rewards will aggravate the problem. You don't want to pump more revenue in the system. You want to stop it from growing uncontrollably.

Jenovas,
The fatigue should increase in haven because people are still playing the game while in haven. People who AFK in haven can easily log out or go to ready room instead. People who like to merch/chat versus playing in the clockworks can do so for as long as they want, because they don't feel any fatigue drawbacks in haven. If they decide they want to do some arcade after chatting for a long time, they can simply use a biscuit before going down to clockworks.
A degraded weapon is still much more useable than relying on status. Again, the point is that crown-rich people are those who farm the most, so the weapon fatigue will affect them the most. Rich people will not hesitate to pay 32k to renew a 5 star weapon.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 14:07
#4
Fangel's picture
Fangel
...

Yeah no. This sort of system is a limiting system that the old game had - removing elevator costs allowed us to actually play the game whenever we wanted, for as long as we wanted.

Now, your reasoning behind this system is that is discourages us from being on our computers all day - however the people who spend all day on Spiral Knights are going to be spending all day doing something unproductive anyways, be it another game, or chatting with people online.

This suggestion hurts the users with no good incentive. Mist energy was free money - but it was pay to play. Now, we have free to play, but pay to upgrade. You're suggesting a free to play, pay to upgrade AND pay to play reasonably. It's... It's just not fun.
End game crown sinks are great, but they should be voluntary and be upgrades, not be mandatory to play at a normal capacity. Having upgrades be temporary is also good - like slot upgrades.

What Fehzor was getting at earlier was that it's better to reward players for playing the game in a specific way rather than punish them for playing the game in general.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 14:25
#5
Falminar's picture
Falminar
Was my post deleted, or did I forget to publish?

Simply, about what that post was saying:

-1.

"If this actually came out I'd probably just stop playing... It just wouldn't be worth fighting through it all." - Fezzy

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 16:12
#6
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

My post was a bit abbreviated because I was posting from my phone.

In essence, fatigue systems are something that turns a lot of players away and implementing one would probably greatly risk collapsing the game. However the premises at the top of your suggestion have proven rather necessary, and can be illustrated/solved using these two ideas-

1. Energy is worth much less now, as items cost much more energy to craft and elevator costs are gone

Energy would be much more powerful as a currency if it translated into meaningful rewards- in this case more rarities, orbs, unbound weapons, finished weapons, accessories during flash sales.. pretty much everything except battle sprites, which are fine in price.

2. Concentrated play is the same as diluted play; mist energy used to equalize rewards among all

Mist energy was actually an incredibly good mechanic for balancing the wealth based on days rather than hours and could be remedied by providing some sort of log in bonus. Alternatively, the daily mission and danger missions could be given a sizeable reward of crafting rarities or crowns.

--------

The reason I suggested a revamp of the revive system to reflect on deaths is to keep players at bay longer, in line with the OP. Lets say you're new to the game and are trying to master the jelly king- currently you can just start up 20 parties and try over and over until you've mastered the content or get a good enough party, or whatever it is you need to do.. and failing that, you can just abuse sparks of life. If you take these things away, the game becomes a lot longer and deaths a lot more serious.

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 11:10
#7
Cyphereau's picture
Cyphereau

"Reported Deleted-Knight for copying 10,000 games' combat system mechanics." - Cyphereau (11-19-2015)

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