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Ideas from Kongregate - Rarity crafting

6 replies [Last post]
Sat, 11/14/2015 - 16:07
Falminar's picture
Falminar

Someone on Kongregate (where I play) posted this, so I decided to put it here too just so the suggestion won't be wasted (I don't think anyone checks the forums there, so the mods would never see suggestions put there). Corrected his grammar, but other than that, it's entirely copy/pasted.

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Originally posted by AlphaPhenix

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Now look, I know that the last time this game got updated was in 2013, but people still clearly play it and it will be nice to have another update, so here are 2 ideas.

1 - Being able to craft Sparks of Life - Now then, I am thinking about it since the shards aren't really used all that much, how about you being able to craft Sparks of Life? The recipe itself will be as rare as Sparks of Life themselves, but can also be purchased for around 60 Energy from the Supply Depot and for maybe 5k or 6k crowns from the Auction House (or really just whatever people put the price on). After you learn the recipe, the ingredients that you will need are: 50 of every kind of shard (Red shard, Green shard, Light shard, Blue shard, Dark Shard), 20 of any 1 star material and 50 of any 2 star material. The reason why the recipe doesn't require any high rank materials is so Recruits can craft them easily too.

2 - Being able to craft Orbs of Alchemy - Every Orb of Alchemy will have a different recipe, and the higher their rank, the more rare they will be starting at pretty common and going to almost impossible to find. As for the recipes, here they are:
Flawed - 10 of all Shards and 20 of any 1 star material
Simple - 20 of all Shards and 30 of any 1 star material
Advanced - 50 of all Shards, 20 of any 2 star material, and 40 of any 3 star material
Elite - 80 of all Shards, 100 of any 1 star material, 80 of any 2 star material, 60 of any 3 star material, and 40 of any 4 star material

PS: Please excuse me if I missed any of the Orbs.

Sun, 11/15/2015 - 15:19
#1
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I've talked a lot about the introduction of new currencies or arbitrary links between existing currencies and why it's not a good idea but I suppose it's been a month or seven.

Mixed Currencies and Rewards

Currently items require fire crystals, materials, crowns and orbs of alchemy to craft. Fighting through your average level provides varying levels of all of these things. Since 2/3/4* orbs and 5* fire crystals are the rarest of these in almost all cases, these become the dominant rarities when crafting and are all that really matters.

Balancing the dominant rarities with crowns/materials/rarities would be extremely hard and relatively pointless, since they all drop at the same time in a number of formats. You can only really have players need one thing at a time.

The Alternatives

There are two good solutions that I've found to this.

The first is to just choose one- remove all non-specific materials (i.e. tortofists can still need tortoshells), fire crystals, or orbs of alchemy from the game, such that there is only one rarity required to balance for all crafting. This can then be raised or lowered or tweaked in whatever way is required. My preference would be only materials (and some crowns) required for crafting, with materials being made more rare and more specific to certain areas.

The second way is to separate all of the level rewards required for crafting. There are a number of ways to do this-
A) Missions remain relatively unchanged, arcade gates are made to be strongly biased towards one drop type; i.e. a crown gate, or a fire crystal gate
B) Assign individual level types crafting material types; i.e. bosses = crowns, CT = orbs, compounds = materials etc.

***I may come back and comment on sparks of life***

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 12:22
#2
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Yeah

I'm more on board with Fehzor here. We do have prices on said items already, it's just in an energy sort of way. That plus since the sprite updates materials have dropped like crazy, meaning that anyone with a fair amount of hours in the game would never have to grind for orbs/sparks of life again while newer players would be grinding like crazy to get these things. That is one thing I like about this new system, end-game players are encouraged to grind at lower depths for different reasons - but can stay at stratum 6 if they just want crowns to do the work for them.

One fond memory I do have about the old Spiral Knights grind was that search for materials. You had to find that one monster that drops that one material and if it does then hopefully you get that drop. Back in those days it might actually be worth it to purchase materials from Brinks - now I can't see anyone doing that. Making materials rarer would assist in making recipes more fun to make - however it would make battle sprites a really slow and unrewarding grind. If we simply had a single type of "orb of alchemy" and a single type of "fire crystal", each of which you needed more of to progress... Well, that would probably be more satisfying.

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 13:47
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The spark system comes up a lot and I believe that it's fairly balanced as is. Being able to craft sparks of life (and buy them with energy, honestly) creates a terrible dilemma for those newer tier two players- they need crowns, energy, rarities etc. to progress, and to get them they often "need" to revive.. which costs them very things they need desperately. In the end it almost never pans out in their favor and they remain in virtual poverty with the worlds smallest violin playing each time they buy sparks. In this way, tying sparks to the crafting currencies is a terrible idea and the problem of "too many materials" is better solved and addressed by the ideas in my first post.

What I will say for the spark system is that players rely on it too much and come to expect success on all runs, even if that isn't really feasible. Using a spark after doing your best and making it 90% through is a lot different than using a spark after dying to the first battle, and too often I see sparks being used for the latter, giving these knights unrealistic expectations of their abilities while they have sparks only to let them down and offer them their power back at the cost of their already meager profits. Sparks of life should probably not be buy-able with energy, only find-able in the arcade and through real money purchases.

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 13:55
#4
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Good point

Lot of new players assume sparks of life are burnable, but they still carry as much weight as before, just you can get them for free. I think a good way to do this would to be giving player the option to use 50 energy to revive and the option to use sparks of life at the same time. In this way, newer players will see that they're essentially burning that much energy with each revive, and when they have no sparks left, they are digging into their money reserves.

Additionally, adding more "loading" tips about these sorts of things would be good. Things such as "if you find yourself being downed too much, try lowering the difficulty of missions!", or "Sparks of Life give you a massive offensive boost when used, but are fairly scarce in the clockworks. Don't waste them on common encounters!"

But yeah, "too many materials" is the solution to battle sprites, whereas not enough materials is the solution to gear crafting. If we could heat our battle sprites at a reasonable pace then I wouldn't be against the latter at all, but seeing how important materials are to even start leveling them up, it would be in our best interest to keep materials common if we don't change battle sprites.

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 17:11
#5
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

FIRST-

I'm loving how the suggestions forums is gradually turning into Fangel & Fehzor's silent talk show. Someone comes on, suggests something, and we talk about it until we've written several hundred more lines than the original poster.

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Yea, a couple loading tips to address this would be a sweet touch. Like-

"There is no shame in returning back to Haven."

and

"Sometimes, returning to Haven is a better decision than using a spark of life- think carefully before using these precious resources."

I also take issue with the way difficulty settings work with sparks- I'm of the opinion that you should get more sparks and only slightly less crafting rarities on lower difficulties. The point of lower difficulty is to make the game easier, not a bigger grind. Harder difficulties should then give more item drops and a number of additional crowns.. these things aren't necessary for progress to the same extent as orbs and fire crystals are, but are definitely worth the extra difficulty. We've already discussed this though XD

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The way battle sprites feed on all materials is kind of questionable, because it evens out the value of all materials in a way biased towards star level. Rather than being a "blaze pepper" it becomes a "4* material". So lets say the player get the following 5* materials-

A: 20
B: 15
C: 15
D: 15
E: 10

Normally material E would be twice as rare as material A, and this might cause problems to the player.. which is the idea- to force the player to go for material E because they're probably only playing FSC and so not getting the 5* beast material or something. But if the player crafts 6 sprite foods using the most material they have-

A: 12
B: 13
C: 13
D: 13
E: 10

Suddenly the difference is negligible! The same effect is felt across the entire economy. E is still rarer than the others, but not nearly as rare until it isn't rare at all.

The fix-

Sprite's favorite food:
A random material of the same star level as that sprite, or many of a lower leveled material-
n^2 where n = (sprite star level+1 - material star level)
So a 5* sprite desiring 3* materials would require- 9 of some 3* material
n = 1; 1
n = 2; 4
n = 3; 9
n = 4; 16
n = 5; 25
n = 6; 36

Sprite food machine:
n* Food = two of a specific n* material, n^2 of every mineral type
-This food would only be feedable at 5 bars of hunger and would level the sprite all the way up, draining all 5 bars.

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 16:04
#6
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Hmm.

Having sparks of life swap for other rarities would be a good change to dropping. Playing on normal should give you more survivability, therefore more sparks should drop (obligatory "life essence" mentioning - rarity ERs that you can only give to other players. These would drop as well) but less crowns and fire crystals. Orbs should be standardized across all difficulties, but fire crystals should be fine where they are.

And having a way to skip entire sprite food levels would be amazing - even if a bit more expensive people will jump at those. Making them cost more in overall minerals but less in terms of materials would be great, because then materials can be less required for sprite food, thus able to be more rare. Really giving minerals a clear cut sink since arcade deposits don't exist anymore is what we need, and putting 5, 10, or even 15 of each mineral into supercharged food would be wonderful.

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