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Giving Underrated Swords a Chance

6 replies [Last post]
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 01:59
Sondrei's picture
Sondrei

Hi and welcome to my thread, I've seen and played a lot of weapons in Spiral Knights but sometimes you see some underrated weapons that could actually be good and one of those is the Cutter Series.

Why?

Well first of all

    It has speed.
    You most likely use it's combo rather than it's charge attack unlike Brandishes and Calibur (as a different feel to it).
    You can most likely shred opponents with ease when used well.

What the hell is wrong with it?

Well it only has Normal Damage. So when I felt like this could have been a completely different weapon when added different damages (Shadow and Elemental) it could be a viable weapon against enemies weak to it. It could be an actual match to it's Gun counterpart, The Autogun.

Next is the Spur Series. This weapon should really be reworked and become a Tornado!

So what should be changed?

Honestly this weapon could be great but it just isn't. So why not tweak it a bit and give it a little character?

So here's few things that should be done.

    Change the Charge Attack into a Tornado. How is that gonna happen? It sucks everything in a small radius around it (larger enemies are slowly dragged into the vortex).
    It's a Wind-type weapon right? So why not add a 5 star called Tempest Blade? But hey call it whatever you want just add it.
    As a Bonus for the 5 star it releases 3 Tornados that sucks enemies in a even larger radius.

So that about ends my thread, just so everyone knows it's just a little idea I got just to make every weapon in the game viable when you play. Every weapon in the game deserves to be used (Duh Sondrei, that's why it's called a Weapon) by players and be effective at what they do, and that's killing monsters.

Thanks for reading and please add your thoughts about it I gladly appreciate your cooperation. Also I might have missed some other weapons that could have been good so please let me know if I missed some.

Tue, 01/05/2016 - 05:18
#1
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

So the charge attack is just a vortex bomb? That seems like it would make the vortex bombs useless.

Tue, 01/05/2016 - 15:02
#2
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Hmm.

Cutters themselves are good weapons, it's just they're not easy to use.

As it stands, the Dread Venom Striker is good and balanced. It hits fast, deals poison so it can hit harder, and is one of the only swords to deal poison damage.
However, the Wild Hunting Blade has a rather odd spot. While it sports a high damage bonus VS beasts, it still only deals normal damage. While this may be useful if a slime turret or lumber shows up in a wolver den, the weapon is very easily outclassed by the DVS, at least damage wise. The WHB has a fair flinch rate, but beasts flinch rather quickly as it stands. I would thus recommend converting the Wild Hunting Blade into a piercing variant, and removing the beast damage bonus. Piercing damage is effective against both fiends and beasts, both of which are countered by fast weapons. Design-wise, making WHB piercing damage is a no-brainer - it's colored yellow already!

I will say that cutters should be stuck with normal and piercing variants only. Elemental cutters would be okay, but most constructs/undead are slow moving as easily group up. I really can't think of a scenario where I'd prefer to bring an elemental cutter over brandish/DA/hammer. Similarly, shadow-weak enemies are a bit more dangerous to get close to in later tiers. Slimes with their lock-on tackle or 360 degree attacks, and gremlins with their rather brutal spin attack, knockback, or bombs littered on the ground. The cutters also have probably the shortest sword reach in the game, making engaging these enemies even more dangerous.

So cutters should remain normal/poison, and pure piercing damage. Now, how about spurs?

Spurs I feel could probably open up to shadow damage. Their charge attack should be changed, but not in the way you've suggested.
Instead of the spurs releasing a large single disk, they would release what is essentially a mixmaster bullet. At 4* they fire a projectile every sword swing, and at 5* they release 3 projectiles every swing that curve to all end in the same location. The charge bullet would fire 1 large mixmaster bullet at 3*, 2 crossing ones at 4*, at 3 spinning ones at 5*. 2* spur still retains current charge bullet.

This turns spur from gimmick weapon into fast chaos. When statuses are added into the mix, the sword would be devastating, and its quick swing speed means it isn't limited to being just another brandish which is spammed for its charge (especially if the charge attack dragged enemies back towards the user - this would be a bomber's best friend).

I can see this version of the spur being in shadow, piercing, and normal variants. Elemental is a possibility, but with the proposed changes to the cutter this would give every specialized damage type 3 different sword types (elemental: hammer/sealed/brandish, shadow: spur/sealed/brandish, pierce: flourish/spur/cutter), and at the same time, all of these sword types are genuinely effective VS the monster types they're up against.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 06:53
#3
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
I like this guy

I would love to see the cutter series tweaked a bit.
The DVS is fine as normal/poison since we already have a shadow/poison blade (Obsidian Edge)
The WHB should be changed to peirce so that it is the BEST weapon for fighting off beasts (this leaves the flourishes still the best line for fiends though)

I would also like to see some new blades in this series. A shadow/shock variant and an Elemental/stun would fill in gaps we have in the swords category.
Shadow/Shock would be built for tackling slimes and the shock would help cope with the masses they typically show up in.
Elemental/Stun would help battling Kats to help slow them down.

_____________________________________________________

The Spur line would be wonderful as a utility sword if it was given a vortex style charge, but in order to keep the Vortex bombs most viable as enemy collection I would propose that the Spur line's vortex be mobile. Have the vortex follow the same path as the current disk bullet. This would make it more viable as a weapon for herding enemies rather than trapping them for combo damage.

As for type damage I'd actually be happy if the spur line was kept as normal with no status since this small change would make it a potent defensive tool.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 07:33
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

What you guys fail to take into account is just how powerful specialized cutters would be able to become. If both hits were changed it would deal an additional 65 per hit or 130 per click- almost doubling its damage. At this point however I would love to see it- it's far riskier to use cutters than it is just about any other sword type, and swords deserve to be top dog when it comes to hacking and slashing up close and personal.

An elemental cutter would be terrible as it would either make rocket hammer redundant or be redundant itself, but a shadow cutter would be plausible, as it would create a high damage single target shadow weapon. Using it alongside maskeraith's deadly shadow cloak would very likely allow the player to kill a lichen colony, or more importantly gremlin mender, in one or two combos.

If we want to go a step further we can give it the brandish treatment. What's that you might ask? Take its damage values vs something w/ no damage additions. Now change its damage to split normal/whatever. Now make it to where it does the same amount of damage to the thing... so that it appears unchanged to the naked eye. What does this accomplish? It gets more benefits from damage up and is more capable vs. enemies that resist it. I did the math a while ago, and such a piercing cutter would be capable of some pretty serious damage- like crushing Vanaduke in a few combo.

Plus one for super cutters.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 14:26
#5
Fangel's picture
Fangel
wellll

Cutters are a high risk high reward weapon. I've thought about the damage numbers and figured that flourishing fiends kills them in a few hits, and with my normal damage cutter it kills them quickly but not too quickly. In parties this gets a bit worse, but a full piercing damage cutter would aid that.

It would be a hefty extra bit of damage, but the cutters are not "safe" weapons, meaning you're already risking life and limb, so you want to get in and get out fast. The massive extra damage from pure damage cutters would not only make them powerful, but pretty flippin' lethal! These would directly compete with other weapons in their area, making cutters go from "eh" to "omg i love it".

Spur with a moving vortex just really makes me think it'll be used as another brandish. Brandish charges are used to push enemies away or inflict status, often both. Giving a mobile vortex bomb as a charge attack for the spur would make it kind of clone-ish. In general I think the boomerang projectiles from the mixmaster would fit much better with the spur's charge attack, but it can keep its disks for the standard attacks.

Mon, 01/11/2016 - 03:20
#6
Shidara's picture
Shidara
Cutters and Spurs

Yes to Special-damage Cutters. I've been wanting this for the past ever.

No to vortex Spurs. I like Fangel's idea much better, having the Spur charge be a Mixmaster-type attack sounds both chaotic and fun in addition to keeping it as a unique weapon type in utility. It's always been a bit of an odd-ball so making it more similar to an already popular (and obtainable) weapon would be detrimental I feel.

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