Just suggesting doubling the damage on attacks that monsters are weak to. That's it. Why? It just seems right and makes killing monsters a hell of a lot easier and I don't consider a weapon being only 0.13 stronger when they damage enemies weak to it.
Double Damage
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 02:29
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 08:50
#2
I agree with Klipik on this
I agree with Klipik on this one. The zombies get shredded with all three elemental brandishes along with the rocket hammer. Jellies, ditto with the nightblade variants and the grim repeater.
There's not much of an end-all be-all weapon for devilites though, save for the dark briar.
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 14:04
#3
yeah no
Enemies take 20% more damage from the right specialized damage, and take 20% of the damage of an attack when they resist it. These numbers encourage but do not force you to use specialized damage, but heavily punish you for taking the wrong damage type. As such, you either stick with normal damage or make a large arsenal of varied gear - the latter of which is very much encouraged.
Besides, you practically do 50% more damage with a damage boost of maximum while using specialized damage. Add a damage up orb and you'll easily break x2 damage... And enemies die oh so very fast under those conditions - I would hate to see them become normalized.
Tue, 01/05/2016 - 23:26
#4
This is how damage works in Spiral Knights:
On depth 24, zombies have about (131-132) normal defence and half that in element defence (65-66).
This means that zombies take ~65 more damage from elemental weapons than normal weapons. Whether or not that is double depends entirely on the weapon used. With something like shard bombs with no damage bonus, for instance, it's about 80%.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 01:45
#5
I interpreted this as wanting a buff for things like cold iron vanquisher. Maybe instead of having the undead high, it'd have undead x2 as its perk? I haven't ran the math but such a fix seems plausible.
Also no Fangel that isn't what happens go read Zeddy and the wiki on defense values.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 07:00
#6
@syrup
I honestly think that the Calibur line and its many reskins should hit hit twice on the charge attack, with the second hit being the one to deal knockback
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 07:04
#7
Interesting....
A lot of the above commentators seem to only be thinking in one direction.....
Personally I think that effective weapons SHOULD be more effective but not to such an extreme as +100% more damage in the right place. There are a could of ways the OPs idea could be taken, pretty much everyone thinks that it would just be straight add on to the damage.
In order for the OPs idea to "work" and keep people complaining about it making fights too easy the base damage of weapons would have to be decreased. This way a brandish would indeed do twice as much damage but with a lowered base damage they would be equal to the current effective damage DPS.
Interesting but also..... bad. This would pretty much ruin normal weapons in the game to such a point that no one would ever use them once they get to use effective damage. Ineffective damage types would drop to a point where victory would become impossible or at the least extremely tedious if the wrong enemy showed up. (imagine trying to kill a silkwing with a shadow weapon if the neutral based damage was reduced, all while trying to fend off a horde of Giant lichens and Jelly Cubes)
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 07:18
#8
@Umbra-Lunatis
I actually kind of like that you get extra hits for cornering things and forcing it to all hit. It makes the weapon a lot more skill-based than if it just always hit twice.
Really though I think that levi's charge should be buffed a bit- possibly getting an additional slash at the start that lacks knockback. The charge is perfectly usable but not nearly as good as other weapon charges that do the same thing, and the big issue is with how risky it is.. to make it work well you have to surround yourself with enemies as much as possible, something the knight usually tries to avoid at all costs.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 11:32
#9
I'm a Wizard
Easy money easy game.
This is boring.
Theres our fantastic 10 Vanaduck statues.
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 13:22
#10
Ahh
Well I recall 20% being thrown around a bit in both directions, and to be honest, it's a fair measurement. Taking a final flourish's neutral charge attack final hit from the wiki, it deals a high end of 427 damage. Effective damage deals 509 damage, and ineffective damage deals 84 damage.
(427 * 1.2) = 512.4 damage, 3.4 damage off from what the wiki claims for effective damage.
(427 * 0.2) = 85.4 damage, 1.4 damage off from what the wiki claims is ineffective damage.
From a pure specialized damage viewpoint, thus, damage can be estimated to be about 20% more for effective, 80% less for ineffective. Sure, technically, that's not how damage is calculated in the game, but when you look at the numbers thrown around it's not inaccurate.
My original point still stands, which is doubling the current damage of specialized damage would be too much when enemies already are rather flimsy. I don't even want to think about acheron with increased shadowed effectiveness vs gremlins on normal.
Thu, 01/07/2016 - 12:19
#11
Fangel no you have to admit that you are wrong this time.
Blitz needle effective: 127
Blitz needle neutral: 67
Difference: 60
Percentage: 1.89
Deadly crystal bomb effective: 143/186
Deadly crystal bomb neutral: 75/99
Difference: 68/87
Percentage: 1.90/1.87
Final flourish first hit effective: 285
Final flourish first hit neutral: 203
Difference: 82
Percentage: 1.4
As you can see it's far from a 1.2 multiplier and closer to what we keep telling you, a difference in defense that means effective damage has a number added to it. If a weapon has a lot of small hits like blitz needle it gets a much bigger amount of damage added to it because each hit gets the extra ~65 damage so please Fangel.
Fri, 01/08/2016 - 12:29
#12
Aye
I was thinking more entirely in swords/charge attacks so that is on me there. Checked myself with a rocket hammer before being distracted by work. Seeing as the tooltip for weapons show charge-only stats I was attempting to theme it around that. Regardless, the point I was attempting to make is still very blatantly out here. While a flourish charge will be ~20% more effective, a blitz will be ~90% more effective. Doubling specialized damage would boost those numbers up to 40% and 180% effectiveness respectfully, and with blitz bleeding bullets everywhere already, that would cause a massive imbalance to the game. The thread is about doubling specialized damage, and while my own calculations had far too small of a sample size, my opinion of the suggestion remains.
But hey I've got more info out of this thread at least. Can throw that old assumption out the window.
Do you want a single brandish charge to oneshot every zombie in FSC? Do you want to lower the record kill time on Vanaduke to under 30 seconds? Monsters are easy enough.