It would have the candle-holding thing (it's made of metal, I can't remember the name) at the bottom, functioning as the handle. The sword itself would be a really big lit candle. It would have the same 3-slash-combo as the brandish, but a bit slower. The charge attack would also be similar to the brandish. However, instead of the explosions, it would shoot out a piece of wax, kind of like the "spit" attack of Salamanders. The piece of wax, without being lit, would inflict freeze onto the enemy. However, if the piece of wax is hit with a normal slash from the sword, it will ignite, instead inflicting fire. I am unsure of whether this weapon would inflict normal or elemental (or maybe even shadow) for it's normal attacks.
Candle Sword!
Wed, 02/17/2016 - 04:47
Wed, 02/17/2016 - 13:56
#2
Yay, a reply!
I like the MSD idea much better than freeze.
I do think that either Shadow or Elemental. I'm going to make a list of sorts to determine which would be more beneficial, because this is still an idea in progress. I will mainly talk about the charge attack, because I like the spur idea.
Elemental-Weak enemies:
Gun Puppies- The MSD would be useless, and it would be hard to aim correctly AND light it on fire.
Battlepod- Same argument as gun puppy.
Lumber- The MSD would be incredibly useful. Fire would be incredibly effective.
Scuttlebot- Same argument as Lumber.
Mecha Knight- It might be harder to lead into the wax, but once accomplished, the knight's normally graceful(ish) movement would be diminished. This would leave it much more vulnerable than otherwise possible. Fire would also be useful.
Howlitzer- Same argument as gun puppy.
Kat- Not nearly as easy to lead into the wax, and the dash attack may not even be affected.
Zombie- Due to low(ish) health, fire would be incredibly useful. They are also easy to lead into wax.
Bombie- MSD is potentially life-saving here.
Scarab- Due to their hordes, and the fact that they accelerate at a moderate pace to wherever you are, many will be caught in the wax. While the MSD wouldn't be very useful, the fire would.
Shadow-Weak enemies:
Pretty much all jellies- They move toward you in a predictable way. Both the fire and the MSD would be easy to use against them (With the exception of a large lichen colony).
Polyp- Same argument as gun puppies.
Drop- Same argument as the scarab.
Gremlin Thwackers- Same argument as "pretty much all jellies".
Gremlin Mender- It doesn't attack directly, so it isn't as much use. The MSD is useless, but the fire could inflict some damage (though it is elemental).
Gremblin Bomber- Hard to hit, unless you're an expert, it won't be of much use.
Gremlin Schorcher- They attack from a distance, so both the MSD and the fire would be of use, as the charge attack is ranged.
So, in a nutshell, it would be good against Jellies and Construct, and bad against Gremlin and Undead. This creates a problem, as half of each damage weakness is useless.
However, I think that it might be cool to do elemental damage, and here's why. I think there could be another mechanic in Candlestick Keep. Perhaps the sword can create a light of it's own to keep away Gremalurks, or light other candles. This is a bit of a stretch.
I also think that the wax ball might not work in practice. It would be hard to do in battle, and it is likely the knight would stand in a corner until they advance to the next room and create the ball beforehand.
I apoligize for any rambles or typos.
Thu, 02/18/2016 - 12:28
#3
Well...
Elemental damage is fine and all, and honestly, it would be really cool to see another elemental sword (we need more piercing and shadow swords too), but this sword would bridge the "3 non-DLC elemental swords" gap, and for the future I really want to see 3 different sword types for each damage type (spur going shadow and piercing, cutter going piercing).
I will say however that no one weapon should be able to turn the puzzles of the clockworks into trivial "one click solutions". The embers in candlesticks should remain the only way to light candles - they're supposed to be magical in one way or another anyways, otherwise our various fire weaponry would be able to light the candles.
The unique bit of this weapon is the wax on the charge attack and making use of that. Making a throwable ball of wax is interesting to me because it would allow reliable status infliction if you're willing to prepare it, even in lockdown! The idea is to use the wax ball to start combat rather than to make one during combat due to how fast the wax can revert to its "puddle" form. When thrown it could even leave 3-4 wax puddles wherever it landed/around the enemy it hit, allowing for more uses for the ability! Anyone could pick up these wax balls as long as they're completed, and anyone can contribute to making a wax ball granted they have the weapon.
On its own standing the weapon seems like a unique and fun new toy. With the wax ball it opens up even more weapon opportunities, and legitimately gives dedicated sword users the ability to make a more damaging stun/fire vial on the fly to use in combat or to throw at switches!
... I will say that with the wax ball idea, you could even have it be "upgradeable" even further, such as 3 charges = throwable ball, 9 charges = makeshift candle. You can light the candle and walk around with it like the ball, and it would ward off grimalkins in that way, but it's still throwable as a weapon. The light radius would be super small however, so a grimalkin would just barely not bite you if you stood still while it came towards you - running towards a grimalkin will still get your hurt, and this makeshift candle only lasts 30 seconds before burning into a ball of wax, which cannot "downgrade" further while you carry it.
Thu, 02/18/2016 - 13:15
#4
...
Fair point on damage. So far, there are about twice as many elemental swords as there are shadow, and it would be good to have another shadow sword (but in that case, I think the fire at the top should be blue).
I was thinking about the problem with the wax stacking, and I believe I have come up with a good solution. What if after the charging bar reaches it's peak, it will restart. At this point, the normal charge attack can be used, where a wax ball will shoot out, but will not stick to the ground. It will not cause MSD or inflict fire, it will simply do damage.
After the charge bar reaches the top for the second time, it will shoot out a ball that is the same as the first, except it will stick to the ground. As discussed earlier, when unlit, enemies that step on it will have their movement speed decreased, and when lit the ball of wax will inflict fire.
If you continue to complete the third charge, the ball will have the same properties as the second, except you may pick it up and throw it. Unlit, it will do damage. Lit, it will do slightly less damage but inflict fire.
I see your point with the level, and I now agree.
Your puddle idea is incredibly interesting, and I think it could work like the Oil Pot.
Thu, 02/18/2016 - 15:12
#5
Yeah
The puddle idea is more just how the wax works, and this would be like our own way to make oil slicks that are friendly.
Honestly though, I do like the idea of the charge attack just "upgrading" the wax puddle that's nearby. It's despawn timer would reset with each charge, and each "wax level" would downgrade to the previous stable condition after a short amount of time, eventually despawning as a whole. The 3 levels would be Wax Puddle (charges required: 1), Wax Ball (charges required: 3), and Makeshift Candle (charges required: 9). If wax is lit at any time during the upgrade process, the resulting item would be lit automatically (puddles lit would turn into fire wax balls, or lit candles, and lit wax balls would become lit puddles if left idle).
In this way we're adding a new mechanic instead of modifying an existing mechanic, because from my knowledge, editing an existing mechanic can lead to a lot of unintended results (ie, maybe suddenly catalyzers can charge multiple times, but after the first charge nothing happens), and if this item is ever in need of a rebalance or change having all the code be in one place would be easier to work with.
If the multi-charge function is ever applied as a combat update, that can exist for many weapons then I'll be all for it. As it stands, shooting a short range projectile into a pile of said projectile goop might work better.
Sun, 03/06/2016 - 06:30
#6
｡◕ ‿ ◕｡
If this actually becomes a thing, I wonder how effective this would be in LD.
Interesting. Why not have wax just inflict a MSD (like that of snow) to enemies, and fire when ignited? The actual wax itself can be a debuffer, but be able to be turned offensive.
I would say this sort of weapon could be shadow damage or elemental damage. Elemental would likely be better due to slow enemies walking over wax being effective, however shadow weak enemies would also prove liable to traps.
Next I will say that the standard 3 hit combo might be a bit meh. Weapons that attack in that style are kind of boring - might be more fun to give it a spur attack style, but maybe the original spur (step forwards on first hit). Would make it more exciting.
If you wanted to get complex, perhaps you could stack wax on top of each other to make a little ball. Balls could be picked up and thrown after 3 charge attacks. If lit they act like a fire vial that does significantly more damage, and unlit they act like a stun vial in the same way. These balls would despawn if not picked up after the same time wax would normally, so you really do have to work to get your charges into a ball if that's your goal.