Spiral Knights - Mini Monsters: Why are they annoying? I think I know:

Mini Monsters: Why are they annoying? I think I know:

9 replies [Last post]

Sun, 02/28/2016 - 15:39

Pery-Alaois

Ever since I(and many of us) first fought these things, I was always frustrated by them. They weren't fun, even though most of the time I survive longer than any other party member. But, I've made a "list" of things that make them annoying so I can get this topic off my chest.
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1. Number
Way too many of them show up at once, and an entire swarm takes so long to kill. This is because in the compounds, the final room has these spawners with notable traits:
a. There are too many of these spawners
b. They spawn a mini monster periodically with no regard to if the previous one is dead or not, allowing them to become a large threat over time.

2. Attacks
Now these attacks aren't inherently 'bad' by most means. For example, during the Dark Harvest Festival, there these special scarabs, that mostly appear alone, and are fun. However, the combination of advanced AI and the number of mini monsters makes them deadly.
a. Dust Bunnies have range and homing abilities that would go great with wolvers. If the attacks of bunnies and wolvers were switched, both monsters would be more fun to fight.
b. Scarabs have this annoying dash attack. If the scarabs appeared like the Dark Harvest ones mentioned earlier, this wouldn't be a problem, but for the large numbers, it should be changed.
c. Glop drops.
I say we make an elite slime enemy that uses the glop drops' attack. For the glop drops themselves, they should have some sort of rolling move, since that is how they move.
Overall, the mini monsters should have their damage nerfed, because as of now, they hit like tanks.

3. Drops
So far, these guys drop almost nothing. If they drop at least 5-10 crowns, they wouldn't be so unrewarding.
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There, I made a thread about mini monsters without raging. If these issues mentioned above were solved, mini monsters wouldn't be so frustrating and annoying.

Be safe out there,
-Pery

Sun, 02/28/2016 - 16:02

Midnight-Dj

4. Lag

It is main problem why the minis are frustrating, scarabs and dust bunnies are almost impossible to block or dodge when there is a one bar latency, and there is no invinci-frame for shield integrity, so you will find yourself defenseless really quickly.

I generally wait for non compound levels and avoid them entirely during clockwork expedition, just screw them, they are not worth the trouble.

Sun, 02/28/2016 - 17:18

Phyrosite

My biggest problem is the way

My biggest problem is the way Spiral Knights handles movement and positioning, a lot of the time I miss groups of these things because they jsut get pushed or they push me because of how many are around.

Sun, 02/28/2016 - 21:35

Traevelliath

I just use bombs...
DR for glop pop drops
Dark Briar Snarby-guna-nom-you Barrage for everything else.

The hard part is figuring out/remembering which ones appear in which levels.

Mon, 02/29/2016 - 01:25

Fehzor

The vast majority of the game consists of 3-5 enemies spawning in a small area, so the knight prepares their loadout around such encounters by bringing weapons like combuster and acheron that can quickly crush a single enemy or small cluster of enemies and then move on.

Compounds breaks away from this by making small area of effect and single target damage less viable. If hard countered with a weapon like ash of agni, tortofists, voltaic tempest, nitronome, etc. compounds is something of a joke but if not can become extremely problematic. Hence, compounds is my favorite level in terms of gameplay.

The one point I'll give you (without a doubt) is loot. Players clear find these monsters to be difficult, and the levels they are found on reflect just the opposite. The mini's drops themselves could also be improved since none of the highest paying levels really feature them anyway.

Mon, 02/29/2016 - 21:12

Fangel

The numbers of minis are what make them a threat. Alone they aren't too bad, but in large groups they become dangerous and comparable all other monsters.

Additionally, your second bullet point for numbers is false (from personal observation, I could be in the wrong here). There is one mini spawned per hole in the ground. However, certain end-levels will spawn more minis when you step on buttons, and so a large number of minis will be active at once.

Overall, compounds are painful if you use swords. Most players use auto target and swords, and therefore get overwhelmed and defeated rather quickly. Minis are the definition of a crowd, and so bringing crowd control weapons are a must if you want to breeze through the level.

I will agree on loot. However, it's not so much the mini's loot I'm annoyed with in compounds, it's the lack of treasure boxes.

Wed, 03/02/2016 - 09:48

Umbra-Lunatis

Personally...

Using the Iron Slug against minis makes killing them a lot easier. When aimed correctly, it deals more KB than a brandish and is more accurate as well as faster than most bombs.

As far as Compounds as a whole, I have a theory that they're designed to be difficult and un-rewarding; the reward is getting through alive, akin to the Unknown Passage or Dreams and Nightmares (albeit on a smaller scale).
Basically: You survive, you get to progress to the lower depths. Ya don't; your money-making spree ends there. It's all about blocking out the weaker players from getting to the abundance of payout below.

Wed, 03/02/2016 - 15:45

Traevelliath

The problem with that theory, Umbra, is that gates rotate constantly. Players will usually default to the easiest solution, not necessarily the most fun. I cannot count how many improtu tea parties I've had while waiting for the gate to change into a not-compound.

Wed, 03/02/2016 - 16:05

Fangel

Ehh

See, the unknown passage is rewarding in a shadow lair. It's thematic, and its reward is the sanctuary afterwards. Compounds don't have that going for them.

Meanwhile, candlestick keeps are also widely known as difficult levels. However despite this, they have fair rewards for completing them, and overall are fun to play through.
Compounds are unfun in all respects - not good loot (of all kinds), difficult or unfair enemies, requires using the most uncommon weapon class for easy clearance (making new players with just cobalt gear get destroyed, and even veterans without bombs problems)... On top of that the puzzles can be unforgiving and difficult to solve.

Mini monsters are great and I wish they could show up in more places outside of compounds, however compounds would still remain just as not-fun. By elevating the loot level to be top tier or at least clockwork-tunnel tier, compounds would be sought after. Danger rooms in compounds would also benefit them, as high box count and difficult enemies would be amazing for end-game players.

People don't farm it came from below or shadowplay after becoming vanguard, they farm FSC and DaN. Those have the best rewards, but if I'm in the arcade I expect to get fair rewards, not below average everything for more skill investment.

Wed, 03/02/2016 - 21:44

Umbra-Lunatis

Huh.

Never thought about danger rooms in compounds; if they were free to get into, but also optional, Conpounds might have a niche due to the choice of, "Should I stay along the main path and get less loot, or risk the possibility of complete and utter wreckage for, say, 2x a normal danger room's loot amount (due to the Compound Danger Room reflecting/enhancing the difficulty of the Compound itself)?"
In that way, i think i agree with you. Though, my original statement still stands, and this time I'm answering Trae when I mention that it's a trade-off: The amount of time spent waiting for an elevator to shift gears may not be affordable to some parties, giving them a potential choice of either Sparks or the un-pinpointable amount of time you have to go until the screen switches.

That said, what would be an ingenuitive way to make a Compound level actually fun?
We have:
>Higher payout
>Danger rooms
If this is all we get out of it, it might very well become another Clockworks level, thus being easily predictable albeit a tad less forgiving.

Now, say if you made changes such as:
>A miniboss such as a Battlepod, Tortodrone, or Collector in the aforementioned danger rooms
>Hidden landmines in rooms and hallways like in OCH
>Barbed Hedgehogs , steel crossbeams, and Barbed Wire
>(I despise this, but it's a Compound after all) Addition of Gremlin Mortafires
>Gremlin Bunkers (OCH)
>Flamethrower blocks in hallways
>etc.
Then, it might get a lot more interesting. Heck, if these were added in ANY arcade levels I'd be happy for the spice-up.

Just my 2cr worth.

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Mini Monsters: Why are they annoying? I think I know: