Which Loadout?

24 replies [Last post]
Wild-Cisco

Ok so I've been playing SK since Dec of 2013, so I'm pretty familiar with most weapons in the game (with the exception of gunner update gear, bust most are just copy and paste gear with damage type or status changes) and I am back into spiral knights after a 1 1/2 year hiatus.

Anyways I wanted some suggestions on which type of gear I should be getting, I'm torn between getting the Voltedge/Acheron/Bar Thorn Blade combo, or the DA/GF/? combo.

The reason I don't want to run BTB with the DA and GF is because I take auto aim off with the sealed sword lines (as I believe that is by far better since you can aim center mass of mobs and inflict max damage), but with BTB I (and I'm sure most everyone) need auto aim to use it. So its quite a pain to be toggling auto aim on/off, as you have to hold ctrl or go into settings and change it everytime you want to switch between GF/DA and BTB so I hate that.

The thing about getting the 3 swing combo of swords is that I know they are more 1v1 geared as opposed to the sealed swords which are much better for mobs with their swing combo. And before anyone mentions the charge, yes I know, but I am much more into using a swords basic combo then its charge, not because I don't view charges as effective, but I just don't like charging and hate the idea of having to charge to use a sword effeciently. Don't get me wrong I do charge swords sometimes, but not often, and that is why I am torn between sealed swords and brandishes/BTB, because the BTB covers the beasts and fiends way better than sealed swords, but I just love that the sealed swords are geared towards the basic combo rather than the charge.

Also if any of you could pls recommend a gun line because I've only ever had one 5* gun, so I'm not the best at deciding which guns.

Any recommendations appreciated, btw in case any of you were going to ask/wondering here is the previous weapons I had on my old account:

Gran Faust
Divine Avenger
Barbarous Thorn Blade
Combuster
Glacius
Acheron
Obsidian Carbine

thanks,
Cisco

Midnight-Violet's picture
Midnight-Violet
Vanaquack

Personally I'd go with Sealed Sword lines if you're more towards just doing basic swings rather than charge attacks. There's also Dread Venom Striker if you want to also try that out, since it's more for normal swings than charge attacks, just note it deals normal damage. Also what are you looking for in terms of guns? Most I can at least recommend is Blitz Needle if you do FSC a lot since it mows down Trojans and does quite a bit of damage to Vanaduke, other then that, need some specifics in what you might be interested in. (I constantly switch between all 3 weapon types so I can help out with some choices.)

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath
I'm doing Bopp's job because WOOO

You might want to check out Bopp's Sword Guide, more specifically the part on elemental swords.

I just want to make sure you realize how difficult some of these weapons will be to get. Voltedge is a PvP only reward, while the BTB and sealed sword lines are only sold at Basil in the arcade.

I've always been a brandish guy, because I prefer the three swing pattern. However it really is down to personal preference. I'd argue the Brandishes are easier to get UV'd, so they'd have an edge over Sealed Swords, but in the end you'll get used to your choice.

As for a sidearm, Antiguas are my favorite to pair with a sword. You don't need that many gun bonuses to get the most out of Antiguas, and they're good for just mindlessly shooting a few times before going back to swinging a sword. The one I use the most is the Argent Peacemaker, so I would recommend that. Other options include the elemental blaster line, but I find them less useful for swordsmen. Blasters have a bit of knockback, so they're better for a gunner who just wants to keep their distance, rather than a swordsman who wants their target coming into melee range. There are also Alchemers, but I find them a bit fiddly. Theoretically they'll do the most damage, but it takes quite a bit of practice to get used to them.

Oh and I guess you could get a Blitz Needle for Vanaduke. That's always an option.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
my two cents

I propose that you use these two swords: Divine Avenger and Acheron. Yes, this is a mix of two styles, but that makes the game more interesting. Using only one style is dull. And neither of these "requires" auto-targeting. You could also go with Combuster and Gran Faust, but gremlin menders are a priority, and Acheron kills them faster than Gran Faust does.

If you want a piercing sword, then Final Flourish and BTB are both great, as my sword guide describes. (Thanks, Traevelliath.) But you're right that they benefit from auto-targeting. Have you considered Dark Briar Barrage? It is the easiest, safest, and quickest way to kill hordes of fiends (and beasts, although those are not worth worrying about). And Blitz Needle is the other obvious recommendation, for big enemies.

As my sword guide explains, you can use just about any gun as a sidearm for swords. Some players like antigua-style guns, because they are easy, fast, and long-ranged. But they do mediocre damage and are boring. Get a good gun: magnuses (charge), alchemers (regular or charge), autoguns (charge). But then you don't like charging... Maybe just don't use a gun. In most areas of the Clockworks it's quite unnecessary.

Welcome back to the game.

Veridiandynamics's picture
Veridiandynamics
Another 2 cents

Hi.
Swords:
If you dont prefer to charge a sword, then i would recommend Sealed Sword lines more.
Brandishes are more effective, but only with charging.
And dont worry, you can use Faust against beasts, and Avenger against fiends just fine.
Personally i think toothpicks (flourish and snarble barb) are not really useful in PvE. I dont use them at all (im probably biased about this). In PvP its a great weapon tho'.
About the guns:
Autogun lines deal the most damage hands down. But they are a bit harder to use (you cant move while shooting) , and they are kind of not useful in PvP at all. However if you plan to play FSC (Vanaduke) a lot, then Blitz is a must have. Note: regular shooting with this gun is not recommended at all. If you dont want to have a must-to-charge weapon then its not your gun sadly.
Antigua lines are pretty cool, and have a decent single dps (smallest AoE tho'). 6 shots and very quick projectiles. The only downside is that its usage is rather clicky. You need to bang your mouse, like its no tomorrow all the time for that. If youre okay with that, its a viable choice.
Pulsar lines are pretty safe choices. I'd say they are the gun versions of Sealed Sword lines. Big AoE , and big knockback, slow projectiles.
Blaster lines are somewhat a combination of pulsar&antigua. 3 shots, quick projectiles, average AoE, and a little bit of knockback.
Magnus lines are fun as hell to use, but slowest to shoot with and well their charge attack is actually great. So not charging is kind of a waste.

Final conclusion: all weapons are actually viable in the game as far as PvE goes. They differ in usage style, and effectiveness, but they all can be fun. Especially bombs in my opinion ;)

Good luck

Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar
gun styles without charging

Here I can recommend the Antigua line or the blaster line. The blaster line is pushing enemies back a Little so on Close range you may get a bit breathing room. This is best used if you do like to outrun enemies and using that Little pushback to extend the time until you Need to move yourselfe.

If you are more the offensive type who likes to just shoot a few bullets while moving to the enemy and then attack it with swords, then Antiguas are your gun line of choice.

Another gun I can recommend would be Blitz Needle vs devilities. The wide bullet arc of normal shots will most likely get a few hits even on These dodgy devilitis. Just make sure you Keep your distance and use the first shot (so no reloading) and then shield, so you do not Need to reload. Technically this is a Long range-Sealed Sword with piercing type with the downside that you have a smaller attack arc to Monsters who are just in front of you. A side effect of picking Blitz would be that you have the probably most used weapon against a certain Boss - though People tend to use the Charge attack of Blitz more often there.

Alchemers.... well, I personally do only use them if I Play *very* defensively - which is... maybe in Heart of Ice in certain Groups or vs kats from time to time. But if you like the Antigua line, thn this would be the last Thing I can recommend to you, unless you start intensively to Train Switch-Shooting, which would make the gun 'sidearm' to your main weapon.

Magnus-line normal shots have the very nice ability to knock most small enemies on the floor (exspecially menders and wovlers). So you may use a Magnus shot as Initial attack, then unleash your sword wrath on the enemy that lies helplessy on the floor >:D

Wildfire/Supernova can be used to move enemies fastly into a Corner to make your avenger swings hit even more Monsters at once. But remember that this Needs practice - otherwise you will just move enemies around and annoy Team mambers. But if you can handle it, you will get all Monsters where you want them to be. Due to shock movement interruption, I can not recommend Polaris here.

Tortoguns are nice, but they are very centred around their Charge attack. This could create a Brief safe Zone for swordies, too, but I doubt that this will hit your playing style as one who likes fast damage. If Meely combat is earth-elemental, then Tortoguns are Wind-elemental.

Can you afford mixmasters? From the technique, it is like a penetrating Antigua with less shots but due to Penetration a better aoe effect.

Greetings
~Jenova

Wild-Cisco
@Traevelliath I have

@Traevelliath

I have actually read Bopps guide before, I just wanted some more opinions on it. And I know how hard they are, if you check the bottom of the post I've had many of them (including BTB) before and yes I'm currently working on voltedge with the krogmos doing BN and LD. I'm not big into UV's so thats not something I am really taking into account, that and I already have the acheron on made my shockburst so I don't want to go back. I have been looking into the AP and am thinking about getting it, I am also working on the blackhawk so I can get the carbine again because I did enjoy that. I'm pretty torn between the AP and arcana being my elem gun of choice because I'm not really enjoying the polaris too much atm, though I love it for turrets.

@Midnight-Violet

I plan on doing vana runs a ton in the future, so your right I should be working towards a blitz (admittedly I have not yet), but what is your opinion on gun lines, I'm kinda leaning towards the antiguas like Trae but some people have told me they weren't that good compared to alchemers.

@Bopp

Thanks Bopp :D. And yes I've checked out your guide before, very well written. Its just even after reading it, and using them, I am torn. The only thing about your recommendation is I would find it pretty hard to use a 3 swing sword with no AT. Thats the only reason I don't want to mix them. I know that in 1 on 1 acheron is much better than gran faust, but it lacks CC (other than spamming charges which I don't like doing) and I just can't see enjoying it w/o AT.

@Veridian

Yeah thats what I have been doing so far, DA for construct, fiends, and undead and GF for the other 3, but thats the only thing that puts me off about it.
With fiends and beasts I'm not doing boosted damage so thats the clear advantage going with 3 swing swords would have. The magnus lines sound interesting to me and I'd actually put them more in line to being related to sealed swords than pulsar lines (just my opinion) except that magnus charges are more common than spam charging sealed swords. I have gigawatt pulsar leveled up to 10 but I'm still not that impressed with it, I definetly could not see it being any more than a turret killer even at polaris. The slow projectile speed and insane knockback is very troublesome. I also don't spam it in parties for obvious reasons, so it has that downside as well. I'm leaning more towards antigua or blaster lines atm, and yes with the blitz I do realize I'd have to spam charge it a lot, but thankfully when I get it I'll probably reserve it for vana and at most wolver dens.

Veridiandynamics's picture
Veridiandynamics
Great gunner description @Jenova

Also now that i think about it, Overcharged Mixmaster (and Orbit Gun too of course) have 3 shots, but doubling the bullets, so same as Antiguas, 6. Probably one of the highest dps guns. But yeah they are deffinately the most expensive, and cannot be found anywhere, but promo boxes.

@Cisco: be careful if you want to use a Blitz against tier 3 wolvers, it needs experience. Otherwise they will just jump around and make you waste your time, and be annoyed. It is actually true with every gun, and even with sword "shooting" too (like charge). But yeah Blitz is actually great against devilites, as Jenova said (i would still use its charge tho', not the regular attack, but i can see its a safer choice to just singleshoot and shield between).
Also about the boosted damage part :) Its not always the shiny red numbers that deal the most damage, trust me ^^ Blue ones can be as good and rare times even better.

Wild-Cisco
@Jenova Thanks for all the

@Jenova

Thanks for all the useful info! I didn't know magnus lines were able to knock down enemies on basic attacks, I have seen a few people with winters grave but they seemed to mainly charge it. Yeah I don't want to dump a ton of money in the game just for mixmaster, so I'll pass on that one though I've heard nothing but the best about it.

I can't get the hang of alchemers, I tried it before, getting the shadow and elem/shock one, but I could never get used to the small clip, so I dumped them at the 3* variant. I definetly need to get a blitz, I should've stated that in my OP, but as far as the other guns, I don't know whether to also get a grim repeated to go with blitz and use the two outside of vana (ofc not using grim repeated in vana but you know what I mean) or just going with the new blaster lines, or going antigua.

I haven't really ever upgrade the blaster past the 4* mark and that was before the gunner update so I never touched any of the special damage ones, I see them in LD all the time though and they look pretty awesome. very strange sound to them as well. One thing I'm worried about with antigua lines is that if I don't have damage buffs to them are they still going to perform alright, because I've seen people with max gun damage going in with the AP, Sentenza, but idk if it would be as useful without the bonuses.

Veridiandynamics's picture
Veridiandynamics
If you think about it

Single dps of antiguas are actually great and simple to pull off. With other guns you have to switch like madman after 2 shots (every single shot with alchemer) if you want minmaxing. With antigua you only need to switch after the 5th shot. They have small damage and even smaller AoE for sure. But if you count the additional shots in just 1 clip, they actually are really devastating. And if you count in the reloading, it might be just the best single target dps gun (not counting mixers). You just need to clickity-click. Of course if you go pro with switching you do more damage with other guns, but man that needs some commitment.

Erikcat's picture
Erikcat
Shouldnt this be in the

Shouldnt this be in the Arsenal thread? Just sayin

Wild-Cisco
Yeah I meant to post it in

Yeah I meant to post it in aresenal but I was accidentally in general discussion...

@Veridian
So it seems like antigua lines definetly might be the line I should go with, the only thing is how good are they w/o AT, since it seems most here suggested I stay with sealed swords (currently have DA, looking for GF recipe) so that means no AT. I know that the bullets are pretty small so is AT pretty recommended or no?

Bopp's picture
Bopp
auto-target

Wild-Cisco, I can understand why you "need" auto-targeting on flourishes like Barbarous Thorn Blade. The lunging action is really hard to control otherwise. And I can understand why you don't need auto-targeting on swords with long, wide sweeps, like Divine Avenger.

But brandishes are closer to DA than they are to BTB on this issue. Using brandishes without auto-targeting takes a little practice, but only a little. The typical player can master it quickly. And turning off auto-targeting lets you do more advanced techniques, such as aiming between two enemies to hit both, etc.

You're entitled to your opinions, of course. I'm just saying that your tastes may change over time, as you practice. Cheers.

Wild-Cisco
To be quite honest with you I

To be quite honest with you I never really tried it, but I can imagine it being hard though, I might try it later, but still even if I do, their isn't a piercing brandish so I'll still have a type coverage missed, so with beasts and fiends I'll never be doing that "great" damage. But I'm really lean towards the DA and GF combo, its become really easy to even to arenas on T3 eilte with just those two swords (provided I have AT off, I can't use them with AT as they get me killed). For me to do that with brandishes I know as soon as there is a huge group I'd have to start charge spamming, I am not against charging just against relying on it.

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Antiguas may have small shots, but they got solid hit-scan detection. The shots are fast too, so unless you're trying to hit a Striker boosting about in LD, it's pretty easy to hit a target without AT.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
piercing

their isn't a piercing brandish so I'll still have a type coverage missed, so with beasts and fiends I'll never be doing that "great" damage

Whether you get a piercing sword, and which one, has almost nothing to do with how you choose your elemental and shadow swords. I say "almost" because there is some incompatibility in the auto-targeting. But all of your proposed elemental and shadow swords are equally incompatible with the piercing swords in this way.

Also, Acheron is so overpowered that its damage against a single beast is comparable to Final Flourish's. (Against beasts at depth 24 and damage+0, Acheron's combo does 241 + 241 + 338, while Final Flourish's combo does 258 + 258 + 307.) But the latter is better against multiple beasts, due to the wide first swing. And it's certainly better against fiends, which are more of a worry.

Anyway, you're thinking of all the right considerations, and your choices are good. Have fun.

Fangel's picture
Fangel
Well

Yeah this should be arsenal. You can move the thread one way or another.

However, with damage boosts, acheron does more damage to beasts than a flourish. Because of this, acheron is probably the best sword weapon the game (super effective vs two enemy types, neutral but competitive in damage to two others, deals comparable damage to guns for those that resist it). I mean I run acheron + magma driver in dreams and nightmares in full black kat armor, and the acheron only deals 1 less damage to void zombies on depth 27 than my magma driver. That thing is OP.

But gun-wise, antiguas are great for swordie sidearms. I have trouble with those things because the bullets seem to hit out of place of the actual bullet so I straight up miss my target while aiming at it. Blasters are a solid weapon that will serve you well, but if you want similar damage without knockback alchemers will do great. To use alchemers as a side arm, try shooting a bullet while moving in, swapping weapon and smacking them, then shoot a bullet as you retreat. I highly recommend status variants to make this a support/debuff weapon.

You might consider the warmaster rocket hammer. It's a phenomenal with auto target off, and actually is wonderful in certain scenarios with it on. It's a heavy sword that is mobile. This requires having Operation: Crimson Hammer however, but the sword is great.


Lastly I would highly recommend finding an auto-target toggle that works best for you. Personally I have dodge and shield bash attached to mouse 3 and mouse 4 on my desktop, meanwhile my auto-target toggle is shift. My pinky is already over on that key so enabling auto-target and disabling it is super easy. While my auto-target is on by default, that shift key spends a lot of time being pressed down.

Wild-Cisco
Alright I know I sure of put

Alright I know I sure of put this in the OP but this is my current loadout:

Snarbolax Set
Dark Thorn Shield
Faust
Divine Avenger
Vile Striker
Dark Thorn Blade
Acheron
Shockburst (waiting for krogmos to roll in)
Wise Owlite
Gigawatt

Its not so much the effort of getting the gear I'm worried about, its more of like bopp is saying what is compatible with one another. IE no way can I run DA with striker because either I'd constantly have to switch on/off AT or my striker is going to be horrible, or vice versa. But I think from what I've read from you guys and researching that as far as gun lines go I'll try out the new gunner update blasters, maybe not the piercing one though since beasts and fiends dodge a lot.

Also if you guys don't mind, could you please give me the lowdown on the new gunner armor? The only armor giving boosts to guns I'm familiar with is the cowboy looking sets (like shadowsun etc), all this new gunner armor has me overwhelmed, idk which is good which is bad lol.

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Also if you guys don't mind, could you please give me the lowdown on the new gunner armor?

Your answer in image form

In short, there is an armor line for every damage type, and one for poison/fire/freeze/shock. There are also some 5* ones that give damage bonuses vs specific monster families.

I don't use the new gunner armors, however if I had to use a set I'd pick one with shock resistance. Probably shadow + shock, which is the Falcon Shade set. Usually I just charge spam, so Chaos Cloak + Perfect Mask of Seerus for me.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
obligatory

You could read my armor guide. If you want one of the new gunner armors, then go for Pathfinder, Sentinel, or Shade, so that you get blanket damage bonus. After that, choose the status protection that you want. Damage protection is the lowest priority, but you can pick whichever one you want, by picking Pathfinder, Sentinel, or Shade correctly.

Uberer-Alt's picture
Uberer-Alt

I just wanted to say that BTB is best used by just shield canceling the first hit. The full combo leaves you vulnerable especially when fighting devlites. I highly recommend getting BTB, just remember that the first swing is by far the most useful (imo).

For elemental I would suggest combuster even if you don't charge. DA is pretty slow so even against bigger crowds combuster isn't much worse. Against a few monsters combuster is much stronger.

Between the shadow swords there isn't really any competition. Acherons dmg on the first swing is the same as GFs and acheron is so much faster.

Shield canceling the first swing with brandishes is how I suggest you use them.

Midnight-Violet's picture
Midnight-Violet
Just as a note

If you're interested in potentially picking up a Perfect Mask of Seerus, I can help out with that, regardless if you have OCH or not.

Wild-Cisco
@Midnight-Violet I already

@Midnight-Violet

I already picked up the Mask of Seerus, I appreciate it though :D.

I am working on completing my divine avenger to level 10, and acheron is on level 3, I think I'll end up with all 5 swords, but knowing me Ill never know which ones to decide to use, I love the swing combo of the heavy swords, but then again the 3 swing swords beat them in 1 on 1 fights, turrets especially, and anywhere where you might have to charge a lot like vana, though I do enjoy the DA on vana....

Could anyone tell me if the brandishes on dmge max do as much as the sealed swords w/o dmge buffs?

(Ofc acheron does more but other than that)

Because the sealed swords need asi but the brandishes don't need it as much I feel and could go for dmge.

Wqkipedia's picture
Wqkipedia
ssb

Do you have a swiftstrike buckler? I am too lazy to read 20 big blocks of text. If you don't, it would be useful to pick up if you like to have ASI. I guess it would be kinda glass cannony but it is one of the most useful pieces of equipment for it's price (around 25kcr).

Wild-Cisco
I'm too aggressive and

I'm too aggressive and overall reliant on my shield (especially with sealed swords) to trust on a SSB to be honest. I also already have trinkets so asi is not a big concern for me.