Spiral Knights - Shard Bombs Need A Fix (yes another thread)

Shard Bombs Need A Fix (yes another thread)

22 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/29/2016 - 10:39

Fruitalicious

So, I'm aware that people have asked OOO for shard bomb changes before. But back then, OOO didn't develop the game much/at all. Now that Grey Havens took over, and some of them might be eyeing the suggestions forum, I'd like to make an official request for a shard bomb FIX. Not a change, but a fix.
As most bombers know, shard bombs have invinciticks. If more than three shards hit an enemy, the rest do no damage. This would be okay, if it weren't for the fact that's not how they work. When Nick originally explained shard bombs to us, he said that if three shards hit an enemy (NOT INCLUDING the initial explosion), then the invinciticks would happen. How they work now isn't how they were described. That initial explosion counts as one of your three shards, meaning only two can hit after that. It doesn't make the biggest difference always, but it's noticeable on larger enemies.
Then, the glaring error with shard bombs. The invinciticks from a bomb you've placed previously can carry over to another shard bomb you've just placed, meaning it does no damage. This is the BIGGEST issue with shard bombs, because spamming them creates this issue.
How could these issues be fixed? The solution is quite simple, just completely remove the invinciticks. It wouldn't be overpowered on Vana or other beefy enemies, because the blitz needle does more damage per charge anyway. If the invinciticks were just removed, it would get rid of all of the issues shard bombs have. Some people still wouldn't like them of course, but this simple change would cause more people to give them at least a chance.

tl;dr remove invinciticks

sorry for wall of text dont hurt me

http://simple-shard-solutions.tumblr.com/ Credit to Sir-Pandabear
https://shardfix.wordpress.com/ Credit to Meghan-Trainor

Fri, 04/29/2016 - 11:20

Fehzor

I love how the community never lets this go. It's kind of hilarious actually- the players keep bringing this up over and over and they just get ignored, over and over like why. It's one thing to have a GM drop in to show that yes! They do listen! It's another thing to log onto the game and see your shard bomb finally fixed because yes, they do listen.

Also you're absolutely correct. The invincibility frames overlapping on shard bombs is very much an issue with the bombs.

Fri, 04/29/2016 - 11:22

Fruitalicious

never gonna give this up, never gonna let it down

I was bored in class and wanted to rant, so I thought I may as well at least try to get Grey Havens' attention.

Sat, 04/30/2016 - 14:10

Putkisen-Seta

I kinda wish they had no charge time and CTR just made them blow up faster. But that's completely irrelevant to this fine thread.

Sat, 04/30/2016 - 17:31

Fruitalicious

oh my

no charge time, eh?
new lockdown meta: lag the opponent to death

But let us not derail this fine thread! Anybody else have opinions on what to do with shard bombs?

Mon, 05/02/2016 - 00:57

Fehzor

Everyone has opinions on what to do with them. Mine is that we should fix the bug mentioned in the OP and give them all statuses + the "good" damage + the status effect, with the normal one getting special treatment via something like multiple statuses or even higher damage. The shadow variant would also need the best status effects so that it can hope to compete against dark retribution.

Scintillating Sun Shards,
Shocking Salt Bomb = same base damage as other Shards.

Deady Dark Matter = Curse + vh vs gremlins
Deadly Shard Bomb = Random status effects on each shard, including curse and stun. +damage low.
Deadly Splinter Bomb = Poison + vh vs beasts
Deadly Crystal Bomb = Fire + vh VS undead
New blue shard bomb? = freeze + vh VS construct, might as well complete the set.

Obligatory note concerning curse status

Curse is really no bigger a counter than poison, and is highly situational- most enemies do not attack enough for it to be a major asset, but the few that do are hard countered by it. Dark retribution on the other hand has massive damage on its side, and that's reliable + always useful. The balance then becomes shock helping more against construct/undead, and curse helping more against gremlins and turrets in general. As a further example, ask yourself- am I spamming faust charges and is it working? If the answer is no consider that you yourself secretly know that curse isn't the god status that you think it is actively.

Sat, 04/30/2016 - 21:23

Vohtarak-Forum

lets be honest here

Curse is only really powerful against knights (where 3 attacks from a weapon will kill you), only a few enemies are affected significantly by it (by lack of attacking or by amount of health to attack damage ratio)

Sun, 05/01/2016 - 12:39

Fruitalicious

@Meghan-Trainor

I both like and dislike them all having status effects. What about the Shocking Salt, or Schillanting Sun Shards? They do status, but deal less damage. Making the statusless deal status would negate the point of these sidegrades. My suggestion would be to buff the damage of the non-status shard bombs, and leave the status shard bombs how they are. Just remove invinciticks.

Mon, 05/02/2016 - 01:03

Fehzor

I suggested SSS/SSB getting more damage. You just didn't read it correctly. I added that info in a more legible way.

More damage would be harder to balance with dark retribution as they both do damage. Statuses on the other hand force those comparisons towards the apples to oranges side of things where we want them.

Wed, 05/04/2016 - 18:38

Fruitalicious

reviving my own thread

Maybe its not the best idea to revive a thread that's been inactive for a day or two, but I had an idea for shard bombs. Very minor thing, but what if one of the shards always flew out in the direction you were facing, sort of how the snarby hologram faces the direction you were facing with the DBB. This way, you could use shards more strategically through rotating, not moving your knight itself.
Thoughts? Unneeded?

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 00:54

#10

Sir-Pandabear

Fun fact: Every week, I have a new idea on how shard bombs could be better than they are now. This is because you could do almost anything to shard bombs and they would get better from it.

Nearly all of them involve removing invincitinks.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 08:53

#11

Fruitalicious

@Sir-Pandabear

I'd be willing to read your rambles if you posted them here!

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 09:07

#12

Fehzor

Yea seriously. Could you perhaps make a blog about improving the shard bombs? We should all just make one. Have like five or six blogs that are just nothing but shard bomb fixes.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 10:51

#13

Sir-Pandabear

Your wishes have been granted.

http://simple-shard-solutions.tumblr.com/

I'll post there every time a shard bomb fix enters my hand.

Thu, 05/05/2016 - 14:29

#14

Fehzor

https://shardfix.wordpress.com/

Fri, 05/06/2016 - 18:17

#15

Fruitalicious

boop

we should keep this thread alive infinitely until GH pushes the bomber update

Fri, 06/03/2016 - 06:55

#16

Batabii

Three key problems need to be solved

1. Invincitinks
2. Random timing
3. Takes basically twice as long to explode (inner, then outer)

Also it seems kind of pointless and wasteful to make an entire tumblr account just for one issue.

Fri, 06/03/2016 - 12:40

#17

Sir-Pandabear

@Batabii

You don't actually need to create a new account to make a tumblr blog. Tumblr allows any of their users to make six new blogs every day.

Fri, 06/03/2016 - 15:30

#18

Batabii

account, blog, whatever. It just seems stupid for something so restricted to a single issue that will probably be abandoned after 3 posts or self-reblogged for all eternity.

Fri, 06/03/2016 - 18:19

#19

Sir-Pandabear

But I have dozens of posts...

Sat, 06/04/2016 - 13:57

#20

Shadow-Drake

Tue, 06/14/2016 - 15:15

#21

Triplescrew

+tons

Not only remove invinciticks...

But also make crystals spawn randomly within 3 tile radius circle (smaller radius will make it more packed with crystals, boosting damage output). They should also explode slightly faster.

Because the way Crystal bombs spawn shiny shards is quite counterproductive.

Wed, 06/15/2016 - 08:45

#22

Dagunner

Yes, definitely remove the invinciticks. Also making a bomb with the functionality of the old shard bombs be cool.

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Shard Bombs Need A Fix (yes another thread)