Spiral Knights - sword update

sword update

4 replies [Last post]

Mon, 05/09/2016 - 06:09

Neueragon

we already had a gunner update and I already made a suggestion thread for a bomber update a long while ago. but swords need some love too, so lets look into that.
the gunner update added a lot of guns, expanding old alchemy lines and significantly broadening the gear selection for gunners. I want to get a similar level of gear choice for swords, except for armor, which was excessive in the gunner update.

first, lets think about the sword types we have now.
for shadow, we have brandish and sealed. for piercing, flourish. elemental has brandish, sealed, FoV and rocket hammer. normal has calibur, cutter, troika and winmillion.

the first issue is that piercing swords are extremely limited. you only have flourish-type swords that only deal pure piercing. most swords deal split normal-special, which allows them to be used on other enemies in a pinch without being as ineffective as bludgeoning someone with a soap bubble.
as flourishes are fast, lets get something slower. how about a mace? 2* is jelly mace, 3* is brute jelly mace, then at 4* it splits into rock jelly basher, quicksilver smasher, ice cube crusher. 5* versions are royal jelly scepter, mercurial rod and permafrost shatterer.
they have FoV speed, have a small chance to deal their respective status on hit (stun, shock, freeze respectively) and the charge attack launches spike from the ground in a circle around you. the spikes behave like the tortodrone charge shots, dealing damage to anything touching it.
how about something even slower? lances have already been mentioned several times, so I wont go into detail about them. lets make their line start from a 2* troika, so they get a non-normal branch.

then, winmillion. so many people want a 5* winmillion, so lets give it to them. both shadow and elemental could use some fast swords, so lets make it branch into both at 5*.

shadow weapons... where do I begin. well, first of all, acheron needs to lose some damage. nerf its main attack to obsidian edge levels, the charge can stay. for GF, we need to do a bit more. main attack is fine, but the charge needs so much work. heavy weapons are more for CC, so the charge should reflect that. brandish charges are good at that, but we can do better with the DA charge (which fits better too). so lets give it a DA-style charge with three blades, faster charge than now and still curse.

elemental weapons are fine for the most part, but here I can mention the awful DA charge bug that is absolutely terrible and ruins everything. for the love of god, stop charges getting stuck on walls behind you. seriously, this is terrible.

anything further? hm, well, how about a sealed upgrade that deals normal damage? 4* has the rune circle expanded to 6 runes at the same distance between them, while 5* has 8 (which would double the effective radius). random statuses seem run.
how about more FoV-style weapons? the charge backfire thing is a fun idea, so we could build on that. maybe a freeze-themed FoV.

after all that, there is still one more thing I would like to see, which is sword CTR. how about a seerus suit with similar stats as the mask, but for swords. it would also be nice as an outfit piece to make yourself look like seerus.

Tue, 06/07/2016 - 08:49

Philoslothical

Is that a shadow lair weapon i smell?

ice cube crusher shadow lair weapon confirmed? if we can make weapons for shadow lairs i would love grey havens forever

Tue, 06/07/2016 - 13:37

Fangel

Hmm

Here's a thing that I've been saying for a while - you need to think about what you're using each weapon on.

If we were to pull a gunner update and change our current weapons to be more varied, I have a few ideas. As it stands we have the following:

Elemental - Brandish, Sealed, Rocket Hammer, Calibur
Shadow - Brandish, Sealed
Pierce - Flourish
Normal - Calibur, Troika, Cutter, Spur

As such, I would do the following:

Elemental - Brandish, Sealed, Rocket Hammer, Calibur
Shadow - Brandish, Sealed, Spur
Pierce - Flourish, Cutter, Spur
Normal - Calibur, Troika, Cutter, Spur

Hence this opens up at least 3 playstyles for each damage type.
Weapon changes I would introduce -
SPUR
+ goes to 5*
+ disks start to fire at 3*. At 4* three disks would fly out, one center, and two 45 degrees to the side. At 5* the two side disks curve and loop back to the player like mixmaster bullets
+ lunge on first swipe is re-added
+ at 3*, charge bullet would be a single mixmaster projectile instead of a singular disk. 4*, charge bullet is mixmaster bullet and two large other disks. At 5* fires two large mixmaster bullets that curve into each other.

TROIKA
+ prevent players from being flinched while swinging this weapon

CUTTER
+ add more flinch onto charge attacks
+ increase range by half or a quarter of a tile
+ add MSI: low to this weapon, and MSI: medium at 5*. As it is a weapon boost the increased movement speed will only be noticed while the weapon is out

Then from here, we can look at what sword users need. As it stands we have swordie armor sets for:

Shadow poison/freeze, DMG
Shadow freeze, DMG + ASI
Pierce freeze, DMG
Elemental fire, ASI

We have all damage types covered, however we're missing out on stun and shock resists, as well as CTR and MSI buffs. Therefore, I recommend adding:

Pierce shock, ASI + CTR
Elemental stun, MSI + DMG
Elemental shock, CTR

Like other gear, these buffs only apply to swords. Values could be balanced however seems reasonable - ie, ASI + CTR set might have ASI: low CTR: med, and pure CTR could have CTR: high.
I would additionally add sword MSI: low to the kat claw set, but class specific MSI is something all kat sets should have.

Tue, 06/07/2016 - 14:46

Jessecho

I originally had a way longer post here, but I realized that I had put too many ideas in the same place.

@Fangel: I think we need it to be just a little more widespread than that. The legendary Shock Troika (elemental), a Shadow Cutter, a finished Cautery Sword line (with general improvements to make it not suck), and a Piercing Sealed Sword would all help out with that. Plus, it's inevitable that we'll get Shadow and Piercing Caliburs like the special Blasters we already got.

Now, we have:

Elemental - Brandish, Sealed, Rocket Hammer, Calibur, Troika
Shadow - Brandish, Sealed, Spur, Cutter, Calibur
Pierce - Flourish, Cutter, Spur, Sealed, Calibur
Normal - Calibur, Troika, Cutter, Spur, Brandish

Compared to guns:

Elemental - Alchemer, Blaster, Pulsar, Antigua
Shadow - Alchemer, Blaster, Pulsar, Catalyzer, Antigua, Autogun, Magnus
Pierce - Blaster, Autogun, Magnus, Antigua
Normal - Blaster, Autogun, Pulsar, Catalyzer, Magnus

Tue, 06/07/2016 - 15:43

Fangel

gah

Have you attempted to fight a gremlin or a slime with a cutter before? It's not fun and ends in a lot of pain. Shadow is fine without a cutter.

Specialized caliburs are fine in my book. The only weapon that can be in all damage types should be the ol' reliable one, which is the cobalt line.

Elemental weapons don't really need a troika - we have sealed and rocket hammer weapons filling the niche role for slow swords.

Having more FoV like alternatives would be really cool however. FoV is just a slower calibur, so imagine if we got a slower spur or cutter? Split damage could make it reasonable. Hell, a slower flourish might even be reasonable at that point.

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