Spiral Knights

Gender

24 replies [Last post]

Thu, 05/12/2016 - 12:24

Fiquel

I realize that such a topic probably should not be on the Spiral Knights forums, but I don't really have any other things I can post things on (without an account). I apologize in advance for ignorance and typos.

Recently, there has been a lot of action coming from the transgender, gender queer, etc. community. This has gotten me thinking about many things, most prominently, what is gender? I will use Google definitions, and for those who are not familiar, gender is considered different from sex. Sex has to do with genitalia, male or female, and gender has to do with what you feel is right about you, man or woman or something else. So, how does one identify as a gender? For the purposes of demonstration, let's say I am a male, and that I identify as a female. What does it mean for me to identify as a female? Does this mean I like traditionally girly things, or want to shave my legs? No, that would be sexist (genderist?). Does this mean I want a sex change? Perhaps, but plenty of transgendered people do not do that. If not either of these things, what does it mean that I identify as a female?

Perhaps there is no gender. I will explain.

If nothing changes now that I identify as a girl, then what I identify as doesn't mean anything, therefore almost making gender irrelevant. It seems that, today, gender is either just a label, or a package of stereotypes and expectations. If a man shaves his legs, he is strange. If a woman doesn't shave her legs, she is strange. These are both expectations that limit either person. This could be solved by abolishing all gender stereotypes and becoming one mass of people, not separated by gender or sex. But that is not the point of this point, I would like to hear the views and opinions of other people.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for reading this to the end.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 04:33

Midnight-Dj

This could be solved by abolishing all gender stereotypes and becoming one mass of people, not separated by gender or sex.

If I was a SJW feminist I was be totally triggered by that statement. But as far as stereotypes are concerned, the society will always have them as long as the human civilization exist (and let's hope, it outlasts our life time), and you always have the choice of breaking out, sure you will be alienated, but you got to be who you wanted to be, so it is a fair trade. Assimilate or forever alone.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 10:37

Agentz

BLARGH

What is gender you say?
Look down.

That's just my opinion, don't get your jimmies rustled. ~Z

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 18:54

Fangel

Oh hey

I drop by this forum for the first time in forever and we have a topic like this. Go figure.

In short, sex is what you are born with and is more or less biological. You do not choose what sex you are, however modern science has made it possible to alter your body in such a way that you become biologically something else.
Gender is what you identify as, and as such, can be a myriad of things. Gender is unique to you, however we often create labels for people who feel similar - ie, a man that identifies as a woman is given the label "transgender". This allows you to explain how you identify yourself, and find other people who identify or accept you for who you are. In such a way, you are able to weed through people who you wouldn't match up with in friendships, relationships, business partners, etc via a very simple identifier.

Let's use your example of a man who feels like he is a woman again. This man would feel more at ease, more at home, and more himself when treated, viewed, and acknowledged as a woman. What lies between his legs does not matter, he is more himself when referred to as a woman.
On the other hand, let's take a woman who feels like a man. She would be more at ease when treated like a man, and feel more... well, alive. When you have to put on an act to hide what you feel underneath, it tears at your very being - your soul. When you are accepted for that person at your soul, it's like your own being - your essence - opens up and fills the world with light.

It's an astonishing feeling, being accepted... Even if just by a few people.

So to answer your question, gender is an identifier for compatibility. Often times your sex helps define your gender, as people may be initially interested in you for your biological state, but if they are an incompatible gender then it's not a match that's worthwhile.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 06:37

Fehzor

My gender is lazer lotus because it is the best. I can use both restrooms, wear whatever I want and fly. My gender is highly compatible with Fangel.

Represent.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 14:38

Fiquel

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate the responses. In case my rant was confusing, I found a thing pretty much explaining my view.

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2011/09/30/imagine-the-end-of-gender/

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 10:35

Fehzor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOuI4OqJfQc

Alright so lets say we remove all the genders now you're either a man or a woman in terms of your sex i.e. physical characteristics but you have no gender role you're just a human no matter what. Then someone comes out and says I feel like I should be a woman but was born a man what do I do? Well nothing because there is no gender. Maybe if they can afford to/Science allows it they can change their sex but that desire in and of itself is basically a realization of the fact that genders are built in for humans. They're one of many schema held that lets humans identify and predict behavior in some manner as well as form an identity for themselves. Humans aren't amoebas or something.

Moving towards gender equality is quite a noble pursuit though. Can it be accomplished? Probably. There have been societies in the past that have pulled it off and there will likely be societies in the future to do as well... but I have yet to see or hear of any society that has fully abolished the existence of gender.

Mon, 05/23/2016 - 18:51

Legendary-Kid

Need Support

Guys its been such a long fight trying to find out who i really am. But now i feel comfortable coming out to everyone. I identify as Mayonnaise. the old me is dead, now there is only Mayonnaise.

Sun, 05/29/2016 - 14:28

Fehzor

Or was it mayo in there all along?

Tue, 05/31/2016 - 18:06

Nizada

Well...

What if you just don't care? I mean, ancient Greek men wore miniscirt-like tunics, because they considered it masculine, and hated opon Persians for wearing their femenine wide leather pants.

Although "male" and "female" brains are wiered up slightly differently based on your hormone level, gender is only as real as you percive it to be. The real difference lies in Estrogen and Testosteron level, and everyone has a bit of both. Males liking to care for babies, and females liking cars is as natural as walking. It's simply a difference in hormone levels, and humans just happens to have an average balance where females have higher estrogen and males higher testosterone.
Male =/= Testosterone
Female =/= Estrogen

People truly identifying as the other sex however have a fysical flaw in their brain. Much like asexuals or schizophrenics.

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 00:38

#10

Cadet-Mm

Speculation

Gender is not just what one identifies with. It also includes what society identifies you as.

For example, if I identify myself as a boy, but society identifies me as a girl then the so-called 'transgender-ism' can be applied to me by society.

However, there's also a flip side of the coin... Say... The Doctor. He's an alien. What is to say if the Doctor is a man or woman? Yet society dubs the Doctor as a man simply because that's how society identifies with him... Um... It.

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 04:12

#11

Vohtarak-Forum

um, nizada

Did you really just say that trans and asexual individuals are a result of mental issues?

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 05:07

#12

Nizada

@Vohtarak-Forum

You can refer to it however you want, but a more accurate description would be an abnormal(as in not normal) mutation. Estrogen and Testosterone chauses our bodies to mutate in different maners. In rare cases this chauses a Male(sex) or Female(sex) person to have their brain mutate into fitting a body of the opposite sex. This chauses the experience of "I don't fitt into my body".
In chase of asexuals it is the lack of sexual mutation. As much as your body may have a mutation your brain will not mutate into understanding or responding to sexual behavior when hitting puberty.

Did this clarify? ^^

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 11:29

#13

Vohtarak-Forum

questionable

Transgender is a person who identifies as a different one than they were assigned at birth, so they sometimes take medication/surgery to change that to what they feel is their identity
i dont see what you mean, but if youre saying that its biologically a certain gender brain in another gender's body, id like to see proof of where you got that from because I haven't heard that before, its usually a mindset and not described as a literal different brain

Asexuality is when someone does not feel sexually attracted to people, there's no "mutation" involved, its still just what a person feels and not a lack of understanding of what it is

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 11:10

#14

Nizada

@Vohtarak-Forum

My first Point...

About the brain:
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-d...

About transexuals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism
Several studies have found a correlation between gender identity and brain structure. A first-of-its-kind study by Zhou et al. (1995) found that in a region of the brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), a region which is known for sex and anxiety responses (and which is affected by prenatal androgens),[7] male-to-female trans women had a female-normal BTSc size (like cisgender women) and female-to-male trans men had a male-normal size. While the transsexuals studied had taken hormones, this was accounted for by including non-transsexual male and female controls who, for a variety of medical reasons, had experienced hormone reversal. The controls still had sizes typical for their gender. No relationship to sexual orientation was found.[8]
http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-abou...

About hormones:
http://www.brainfacts.org/brain-basics/cell-communication/articles/2012/...
https://www.womensinternational.com/pdf/cognition.pdf
https://www.sharecare.com/health/functions-of-the-brain/how-sex-hormones...

My second point....

About the Asexuality:
- http://www.genetics.org/content/157/3/1003.short
An STE12 Homolog From the Asexual, Dimorphic Fungus Penicillium marneffei Complements the Defect in Sexual Development of an Aspergillus nidulans steA Mutant
- https://books.google.no/books?id=3P2pVq9XlGsC&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=Asexua...
- http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/27791/why-asexual-reproduction
- http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/asexual-lizards/
"To put this one short. During puberty your brain and body mutates to become sexual. Asexuals have a smaller degree of, or no such mutations in the brain during puberty. Thus their brain never mutates to become sexual or as sexual. During puberty our brain and body mutates/change structure in order to become sexual(amongst other things)."

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 11:35

#15

Vohtarak-Forum

thanks for the links

For some reason I couldn't find anything about it on google, this seems like something that would be more well-known but I guess not
But the way that looks its not a "flaw", just a mutation (which is the reason life forms are different anyways, and not inherently a bad thing)

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 11:48

#16

Nizada

@Vohtarak-Forum

"But the way that looks its not a "flaw", just a mutation"
True. It's really just different compared to the standard, but due to the emotional pain and unnessesary discomfort it chauses to the trans person it could also be considered a flaw. That up to interpretation though. ^^

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 11:58

#17

Vohtarak-Forum

yeah, fair enough

If society became more tolerant it would probably remove the discomfort, but that probably wont happen for a few hundred years (at least, thats my prediction for America, this country kind of sucks)

Wed, 06/01/2016 - 13:19

#18

Nizada

@Vohtarak-Forum

Where I live we don't care if your trans or whatever else. We have a highly individualistic culture, so as long as you don't hurt anyone, or are a selfish bastard we just don't care. Of course there are a few religious fanatics, but those are rare and declining. The thing is. Judgemental surroundings is not the main sourse of emotional pain for trans people. Their main sourse of pain is not fitting into their bodies, or scientifically speaking, lacking syncronisation/compatability between their brains and bodies. Judgemental surrounding do however make some of them burst over and become crazy SJW morons....

PS: I like how you altered the post before all the links! :P

Sat, 07/02/2016 - 22:42

#19

Its-Vash

T R I G G E R E D

Im kidding, please don't go B A L L I S T I C.

Sun, 07/24/2016 - 15:51

#20

Nizada

@Busterbrudder

Love it! I'm dead! ^^

Fri, 08/05/2016 - 19:11

#21

Milly-Souls

Difference between gender and sex.

Gender is what an individual person identifies themselves as, as such, I identify myself as a male. Usually based on traits, or just the desires of what that individual wants which sex to identify with. For example, a transgender person may identify themselves as a female, despite whatever is down...there. Gender can also be defined as whether a person identifies as being masculine or feminine.

Sex is the individual person's actual gender based on sex organs.

Sorry if this isn't clear to anyone, I just looked up the difference on the internet and tried to interpret it. XD

Sat, 08/13/2016 - 20:46

#22

Cadet-Mm

Re: Milly Souls

The Good Sir is correct.

However, I'd like to add that gender is also what society identifies you as. For example, you may identify as a man, but society may identify you as a women. And not only does society identify you independently of what you identify yourself with, society also puts pressure on you to conform to gender roles as set by society.

"From birth, children are assigned a gender and are socialized to conform to certain gender roles based on their biological sex."

https://www.boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-text...

Fri, 01/20/2017 - 07:53

#23

Nizada

@Cadet-Mm

Why care what people identify as? You are *what* you are, and you can be who/what kind of person you like. However if you idetify as the opposite sex, a cat or an attack helicopter it woun't make it so.... Saying you can just be *whatever* you like is a scary, selfish and arrogant point of view. We have to adapt to how nature works. Nature is not going to adapt to our desieres.

Wed, 07/19/2017 - 11:58

#24

Cetta

Emmm

All here we are Gender : Human. Born Sex : Female/Male. all the parafernaly,is made for people´s agenda v:

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