Spiral Knights - New Level idea (Hellish hazes)

New Level idea (Hellish hazes)

23 replies [Last post]

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 05:35

Holy-Nightmare

So the high tier knights don't have much challenge levels when it comes to arcade floors.... how about a new level modifier so powerful it has to be limited only to Stratum 6

Fog levels...

What is this? Basically the entire level (except the area with arsenal station) would be covered in a thin layer of fog that deals minor status.
This would severely limit knights if not outright kill them if their armor is poorly matched, but for those who have a varied armor stash they offer little trouble.

Throughout these levels there would be "safe zones" that instantly heal off the status for unprepared knights as well as a single HP box after big fights. These levels would have only red prize boxes as a reward for the prepared and courageous.

Complaints:

"This isn't fair to people with only one armor set" Maybe you should have invested in more than just Chaos cloak set >_>

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 07:00

Nizada

Responding and stuff

This could be fun but we'd need a lot more armour alternatives for it to work properly, and only the really rich players could accually do all of them.

Also... High DPS players(like me...) would have to invest in several new armours, which will take a lot of time. (I only own the Vog cub set, and use my crowns on weapons and costume mostly...)
It could alternatively be a premium only, set of missions... But current missions can be compleated with almoast any gear, and that is a positive thing, as it allows for the development of personal styles.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 08:17

Sir-Pandabear

This isn't fair to people who just have cobalt set.

Also, there's just a huge discrepancy in how much punishment each level would give you.

From least to most concerning:

Poison: Meh.
Curse: Meh. Only thing you've gotta watch out for is that the cursed slot(s) will change every second.
Stun: Level will be slow but I supposed it can be managed.
Fire: You will slowly die and bomb users are just screwed since fire ticks hinder charging.
Shock: dead
Freeze: Stuck forever.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 10:06

Holy-Nightmare

Like I said... encourage diversity

As I said earlier these are Stratum 6 levels if you are a knight that is capable of reaching these levels you likely have some way to get the CR/CE to craft stuff for these levels. These levels would not be thrown at knights in Stratums 1-5 so that they are not prevented from reaching Subtowns or Basil.

There would always be another level for the lift to select (usually a compound) but for those who want to reap the rewards of these floors (as I mentioned the Boxes would all be red) you'd have to come prepared.

For sake of people new to these levels there would have to be a mission or two that have them as floors (post Vanguard missions that is).
These floors would hopefully come along with the release of an armor update for the Sword and Bomb class armor like what the Gunner Update gear did for gunners.... this way players have multiple choices when it comes to status resist.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 05:16

Neueragon

the idea is interesting if you just glance over it, but fails completely if you think about it a little more.
as sir-pandabear said, some of the hazes are horribly unbalanced. if you for example dont have freeze armor, you literally CANNOT do the freeze level.
low statuses can be resisted easily though. I dont recall how much you need, but it is less than 8 points, or a normal 5* armor worth of resistance. so the haze is either meh (poison), unplayable (freeze) or as easy as normal levels (matching gear). that is not a sign of good level design.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 06:26

Holy-Nightmare

....

These are all weak statuses so immunity is easy. These are also not just regular floors with status haze added, they would be tough even with immunity..... think Ghosts in the Machine... it's hell with or without weak status immunity.

You always have the option to bypass the level by waiting for the next floor in the rotation so if you don't have the right armor you aren't forced to play them.

Freeze could be left out just for the sake of playability or.... have floor rewards scale based on which status is present with freeze shock and fire being the most rewarding.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 06:37

Neueragon

if they are tough even with immunity, why would anyone bother doing them without? again, the haze is pointless, only disallowing certain people entry and doing nothing else.
bypassing levels by waiting for rotations is awful. it takes ages and could end you up on another level that is a haze one too. or you could end up with a non-rotating floor. and trying to restructure the whole arcade generation just for one level type is a bit of an overkill.
so you leave freeze out. what about shock? do you expect people to spazm all over the place and still perform even remotely well? so would you cut that out as well? where do you stop? why not just make the poison one?

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 09:30

Holy-Nightmare

These are for super late game players

These are for super late game players, not for just anyone with a few hours to play on.

The Haze isn't pointless, it just enforces the use of certain armors. Besides.... players are already given a free Skelly set to upgrade and use so that cuts out two statuses there (unless you sold it).

I mentioned earlier that there would always be another floor possibility paired up with these so there would never be these floors forced on the players like compounds sometimes are. Since these levels are more likely to be skipped by players we can either have a faster floor rotation timer or two elevators leading to the standard floors or the challenge area. Also put up a warning telling players that the level requires status immunity to play but offers greater rewards.

Why do this? It gives people a reason to play... 6 new levels that each require status immunity for max performance.

So.... how many sets do you need at the bare minimum?

Divine set (Fire, Shock, Curse)
Dread Skelly set (Poison, Freeze)
Plate or Jelly set (Stun, maybe Fire or Freeze depending on which you select)

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 10:19

Neueragon

again, you want the whole arcade to be changed for just one level type.
and having content that is only for really late game players forced (yes, forced) onto people that actually cant do it is a terrible idea.

if you want something status-heavy, look at C42 and gitm. both have lots of status, both get much easier with immunity and both would be challenging even without the status (well maybe not C42 that much).
compared to your idea, these missions have something that would benefit your idea a lot. status avoidance.
you can (with enough skill) avoid literally every single status hit. slimes can be killed, especially before they ignite. traps can be not stepped on. wisps can be dodged. souls can be shot down.
you are likely to get statused, but even with massive status weaknesses (like firefly gunner armor in gitm) you can still do well. for your level the status is either unavoidable and crippling or absent.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 06:24

Holy-Nightmare

As I mentioned 3 times already....

You would always have the option to not play the level, you'd always be offered a different path.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 06:51

#10

Fruitalicious

What if the Hellish Hazes weren't COMPLETEY covered in fog, but there are thin passageways for non-status-resistant Knights to walk and fight in. Without status immunity the levels would be a massive inconvenience because of the thin safe passageways, but if you can invest in proper armor, they become about as easy as an average Clockworks Tunnel, with better loot at the end.

EDIT: Also not a fan of the name Hellish Hazes. Hellish Hazes would work fine for a fire fog level, but there should also be Chilling Hazes and Toxic Hazes, or maybe even Cursed Hazes, if that's not too overpowered. There would be the main title and the subtitle, for example "Toxic Hazes: Pollution Zone".

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 09:47

#11

Holy-Nightmare

@fruit

Having a simple linear path through the level would be ok with a larger share of the rewards on paths covered by the hazes. Limited range on the battlefield would be a punishment for unprepared players but not impossible. I'd still like to have the path and safe zones shift around slowly so that smart movement is a must.

Hellish Hazes is just one name.... here are the others

Hellish Haze = Curse
Withering Winds = Fire
Venomous Vapors = Poison
Shivering Storms = Freeze
Muddling Mists = Stun
Static Smog = Shock

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 09:58

#12

Fruitalicious

I don't know if a MAJORITY of the loot should be behind the haze, as that is, for all intents and purposes, a paywall against those with less gear. There should be some loot behind it, though.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 11:31

#13

Fangel

ehh

See the idea is neat, however it would work better as a sort of "intensity fog" rather than a constant one. Think of it like the storm events in the Left 4 Dead 2 level Hard Rain. Basically, these hazes would kick in like a whirlwind either for ensured combat rooms, danger rooms, or in general when enemies spawn.

Alternatively, have the whirlwinds kick up for about a minute randomly. Enemies have a chance to spawn in these whirlwinds, but for the most part same status souls will spawn rapidly. Enemies will drop loot, however they will drop loot as if killed on the "normal" difficulty. I would also say that you can see the whirlwind close in on you from a distance, and before and after one passes by souls will start spawning.

This turns fog into a "challenging random event in normal levels", perhaps an elite-only occurrence in stratum 6. Status in the fog perhaps can only be applied once every 15 seconds, thus can be cured with remedy capsules. The souls, however, will inflict the status whenever they feel fit. Good luck fighting off this threat in a D28 shock fiend arena!

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 11:47

#14

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fruit n Fang

@Fruit: It's not a paywall since it is relatively easy to craft gear up to 5 stars (heating at 5 stars is a pain but has no effect on status resists), a large enough portion of the rewards should be behind the haze as an actual reason to craft new gear... if you can get the same amount of reward with incorrect armor then there is no big incentive to get new gear.

Perhaps rather than just loot there would be triggered battles (party button activated) in areas behind hazes.... basically a similar idea to a Danger room but without the CE payment since you have already spent your CR/CE/Time to get the armor you might as well get some kind of gameplay rewards for "unlocking" the area.

@Fangel: True having the majority of the haze be in naturally dangerous areas would be good, mostly since it would be less taxing on the engine to just have a few haze areas that shutdown those without immunity rather than cover the whole level. I'm not too keen on souls being added since they are one of the most annoying things in the game.... but I would be ok if they were spawned when the players attack or destroy the whirlwinds rather than just on a timer constantly flooding the screen.

I don't think this idea would fit in with other levels as a random event.... this is a very powerful effect if you aren't prepared players should always receive warning before going into these levels and always be given a non-Haze floor as an alternative.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 13:38

#15

Fangel

Well yeah

What I was getting at would be this would be a replacement for hazes covering entire floors. Floors are literally unplayable with freeze hazes, but with freeze whirlwinds they are playable, even in chaos. The souls only spawn when a whirlwind is imminent, happening, or just finished, and do not spawn otherwise. The purpose of the whirlwind is that it's a burst of status, and having souls involved makes it difficult on top of being painful for people in status weak armor.

If it's just a status haze it becomes "haze walk - the game". With whirlwinds, it becomes a unique event that makes the level fun.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 14:44

#16

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fangel

The whole point of these levels is to make it so that you can't play in certain armors... pretty much forcing players to build up their armory in order to play them, making these levels easy enough to beat in even Chaos Clock renders the whole point of these levels moot.....

People don't have to play these levels if they don't want to or don't have the right sets but these levels restrict the knights with non-existent armor diversity.

Whirlwinds could be fun if they were put into levels as a random enemy like Stone Jellies are but these levels are for those long time players...

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 14:57

#17

Nizada

Just no....

But why would you restrict the levels to surten armours?!? It's just a bad Idea...

The whirlwinds seems fun though! ^^

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 15:10

#18

Holy-Nightmare

@ Niz

Oh you're totally free to play the level how you want.... you'll die.... but you're not restricted from dying

If you're a vanguard and still have only one armor set.... I'd say you still have a long way to go

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 15:36

#19

Nizada

True that. ^^

I do have a long way to go, and that's part of the fun!
With my current build I really don't need more than one armor set though. I go full DPS, so protection value isn't my main focus. It would be fun to try the Black Cat, and Ancient sets though, so I have a bit of farming to do! ^^

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 15:52

#20

Holy-Nightmare

@Niz

Indeed... these levels are for the late game players who have many armors or the resources to fabricate armor fairly easy, as such these levels are restricted to stratum 6.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 16:07

#21

Nizada

About that...

As far as I can understand these levels aren't more difficult to late game players... Only restricted to late game players. (Or whoever has a convenient armour for that level) If this had accualy added a new experience to the game it could have been a good idea.

Just wondering... (You seem like you would know this)
Is the Ancient set any good for tanky playing?

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 16:20

#22

Holy-Nightmare

@ Niz

These would be difficult even with the status immunity to weak statuses.... if you have ever played Compound 42 or Ghost in the Machine you know how tough it can be.

Ancient set is ok.... certainly not the greatest set in the game. It has a few Niche levels were it shines but mostly people use half the set for the large HP bonus it has. The best place for it currently is March of the Tortodrones, where it's massive normal defense can actually be put to good use. For all other defensive needs I'd suggest the other Plate sets or the Dread Skelly. The Shield however is a tad more useful since it has the massive normal defense but not attack or movement speed reductions... plus it's normal defense and mobility make for a good shield in Dreams and Nightmares as well as other swarm encounters.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 16:54

#23

Fangel

That's actually a good point

As far as I can understand these levels aren't more difficult to late game players... Only restricted to late game players.

I guess that's one thing I sort of felt but didn't know the words for. Yeah, these levels covered in status aren't actually any harder than normal levels, they're just restricting your gear. Players don't use chaos because they're resisting statuses, they use it because they can already dodge enemies and therefore don't need status resistances.

The idea of whirlwinds is you have a minute of status. You are inflicted ever 15 seconds, meaning you're inflicted at least once, even if you have 3 remedy capsules. The souls make the whirlwinds dangerous even moreso, and make the levels "harder for late game players" rather than "restricted to late game players". You hate fighting lost souls - why? They're dangerous. This is a good thing - it makes the levels actually harder than just a playable hall of heroes. Besides, if you have the appropriate armor for these levels, it isn't unlikely you have a bomb laying around that can wreck souls...
This means you can bring full chaos to these levels - only if you are okay with being on fire for a long time, frozen for a long time, pois- you get the idea. It's actually a heavy punishment for bringing chaos, black kat, etc to every level, but at the same time it's not the end of the world.

Heck, you could add more things into a whirlwind. Status souls being the main enemy, add wisps, shankles, those swarm ground spikes (reskinned of course), gun puppies, etc. Could even add swarm whirlwinds at D28 that spawn loads of swarm monsters to punish those with smaller arsenals rather than those with status weak armors.

Imagine a fire whirlwind as you venture through FSC. That alone could change firestorm citadel into an amazing and challenging area again.

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New Level idea (Hellish hazes)