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Sword Movement

11 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/22/2016 - 04:11
Frosty-Pretender's picture
Frosty-Pretender

Just some random thoughts while doing assignments...
Also rip English in this post.

As we know, when you aim at the front and lay down some awesome combos, you go forward or wherever you aim at.
For example, if I am using a brandish and swing it 3 times facing north, I will move north 2 steps after the combo.
Or if I swing 2 times facing north, then the 3rd swing facing east, I will move north 1 step, then 1 step to east.

What if my movement keys (WASD?) can change my movement direction, while not affecting the attack direction?
If I use a Troika, holding S key (backward/south movement) while facing north and swinging the Troika, I will still be attacking the front, while the 2nd swing takes a step back.

What I mean is, you will still be attacking where you aim and your movement keys can change your direction of movement, not just stepping toward where you aim.

This should not affect the current combat system as movement keys do nothing when attacking with swords...I think.

However it should override the action when movement key is pressed. Which means if this is implemented, you can still play it like how you have been killing gremlins, while also able to use movement keys to further control your knight.

Thinking of it, Striker series will probably gain a great amount of popularity. Imagine attacking in 1 direction (not the band) while moving in a square pattern. Or rocket hammer, thrusting sideways or backward...

This might be a pain for the devs to implement considering the animations and stuff.

Gonna keep doing assignments now. Let this post die if you hate it. I might reply if you have questions commented or you like it.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 08:41
#1
Corporal-Shade's picture
Corporal-Shade
I'm a Wizard

I don't think so.

First the knockback of your sword would probably render that useless from you moving sideways to hit your enemy.

Second, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. In the third Slash of the Calibur/Brandish combo, you do that final mini-dash step to put some more force into your attack. So moving any direction other than forward would make your attack suck. This obviously wouldn't work with Flourish and Rocket Hammer but for the Striker Series it might be a little okay.

Strafing was meant for guns anyway.
If you don't want to get hit in close combat then practice Shield Cancelling.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 09:44
#2
Frosty-Pretender's picture
Frosty-Pretender
Oh yes it is strafe. RIP my English.

Thinking of it, yes it is quite useless attacking most of the enemies considering the knockback.

How about enemies like gun puppies and lumbers? Knockback is either weak on Lumber and gun puppies cannot move at all. Some players might also want a better control killing JK without getting too close. Dust bunnies and those annoying minis might also work as they come in swarm, which means you can also dodge while attacking them.

It might be my problem to think that final combo knockback is caused by a strong attack instead of the forward force...The last dash does seem to apply more force into the attack but it doesn't mean sideways or backward can't produce the force as long as the momentum is there (animation issue).

Shield cancelling is sure a great way to finish the animation faster and avoid incoming damage but considering:
1. Not aesthetically smooth (continuous slashes and then a sudden 0.1s shield? Then continue slashing?)
2. Momentum (Keep the slashing going)
3. More damage potential (Shield cancelling still takes a short period of time, which is enough to perform another swing)

Perhaps..? Can't think much atm. 404 brain not found. Thanks for the feedback btw.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 09:45
#3
Nizada's picture
Nizada
Responding and stuff

For real combat moving sideways while slashing forward is preatty stupid. Even the lightest of armours could easily withstand such a wimpy strike, and an unarmoured oponent would at most get a shallow cut.
Also.... Real swords are heavy! When charging in one direction only a really skilled fighter would be able to divert that energy in another direction. What you are suggesting however is to divert your own energy sideways of the direction you are charging, whilest the energy of your sword continues forward. This is compleately rediculous, because what you are essentially doing is splitting your momentum in two different directions, and will therefor not get any significant power in either one of your actions. Not to mention that you will throw yourself of balance, and render yourself at the mercy of your enemy.

Likewise shooting two arrows from a bow at a time is equally rediculous, as each arrow will only be launched with half of the power a single arrow would have. This is because the energy of momentum the bow has to offer is split in the two arrows. When fiering a single arrow this one arrow will get all the energy of momentum from the bow, rather than just half.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 10:17
#4
Frosty-Pretender's picture
Frosty-Pretender
Thinking of real combat

Fencing might not be the best reference but still it contains backward movement. Even though mostly they are parrying while moving backwards, there are still attacks in the action. Will do more Footwork research there...

Real swords might be heavy. However considering knights can take a rocket hammer/heavy blade single-handed slicing everything up, I doubt if they have trouble with it...It might sound stupid diverting the energy to another direction but hey, the current system has the option to swing your sword at front, then to the back, then back to the front. Without the animation, it does look ridiculous. I never doubt that.

Need to sleep for now. Will reply more early morning...

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 11:15
#5
Nizada's picture
Nizada
More stuff

It may be worth pointing out that defending and attacking is two compleately different movements, as you have to align your entire body for whatever you are doing. Charching is also different from simply attacking.

About weight. Lets say you are strong enough to easily lift up a house. Now, if you were to swing that house at someone you will be thrown compleately of balance unless you are dramatically heavier than that house, even though you are more than strong enough to lift it. The same applies to fencing. Because a sword has a bit of weight to it, you will be thrown off balance if you use it incorrectly when a lot of momentum is applied.

PS: Competetive fencing with light, whimpy practice blades don't count, as they don't have the weight a real sword would have.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 11:21
#6
Corporal-Shade's picture
Corporal-Shade
I'm a Wizard

I got a Light Rapier in my house. Want me to try Attacking and Strafing with it?

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 12:24
#7
Nizada's picture
Nizada
Well...

Do you know the length and weight of your blade?

Not to be rude, but is it the sort that easily bends when pushed against a wooden wall? Don't get me wrong, many swords should bend a little when force is applied, but Rapiers were specifically designed not to bend more than absolutely neccesary(Without sacreficing durability), so you could pierse them through mails and light armour. Rapiers are long, thin, stiff and heavy blades.
If your sword easily bends it is a practice sword... However if it is light and stiff you have the slightly shorter version called a shortsword. This is not a weapon of war, nor intended against armored oponents, but is a easy to carry civilian weapon used for dueling and self defence.

Sun, 05/22/2016 - 13:01
#8
Corporal-Shade's picture
Corporal-Shade
I'm a Wizard

I'm not at home right now; come back tomorrow.

Mon, 05/23/2016 - 16:20
#9
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Um

I'm really not sure what's being suggested here. Sidestepping? We have mechanic like this already in the game. If you start charging your weapon for a moment then let go of the charge while still in the combo time period, you can take 1-2 steps to the side. This is easiest with heavy swords, but still possible with others.

Mon, 05/23/2016 - 22:13
#10
Fastlex's picture
Fastlex
I would love for swords to

I would love for swords to feel more mobile, I'd use them a lot more if it where the case.

Tue, 05/24/2016 - 01:04
#11
Nizada's picture
Nizada
Fastlex reply

Swords are mobile, but if you want to move around more while fighting you should have attack speed low x4 (Total of very high) for most swords. Heavy swords would need a bit more, but common they're heavy! And the cutter line don't need any.

Any movement speed bonuses will also help! ^^

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