Spiral Knights - Shift Deconstructor line one star up and make it Elemental.

Shift Deconstructor line one star up and make it Elemental.

12 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 07:35

Triplescrew

Main reason is because there are no Blast type bombs with Elemental damage. We have Nitronome/BAB for Normal, DBB for Piercing....But no blast bomb for Elemental.

Extra reasons :
> Deconstructor line is very unpopular.
> Deconstructor looks like gremlin bomb (and gremlins deal Normal + Elemental damage).
> Deconstructor line stops at 4* and that is no good.

So i suggest to shift Deconstructor line up one star, turning Deconstructor into 4* Elemental Blast bomb with dmg bonus VS construct Low
and Heavy Deconstruclor into 5* Elemental Blast bomb with dmg bonust VS construct Low.

These should have same damage as Master Blast Bomb / Nitronome respectively.

Alternatively, both Deconstructors can have split damage (Normal+ Elemental) with Medium damage bonus VS construct.

This Line will start after Super Blast Bomb.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 09:51

Sir-Pandabear

Everyone has been saying something like this forever.

There's little reason to disagree. I mean, we could talk details. For instance, I'd be fine with 5* Heavy Decon having a lower base damage than Nitro with a High vs Constructs that puts it above effective DBB again.

Or you could keep all of Nitro's damage, keep the dmg High, and also keep the smaller radius; That'd make it quirky and interesting.

On the point that Decon should be 5* and elemental, however, nobody has any objections.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 09:58

Rhons

Some of the Game's Supposed Mechanics

Anything with Specialized Damage to (I.e Damage to Undead, Damage to Slime) or Status would normally deal lower damage to its raw counterpart (exception with the overpowered Brandishes).

I'd agree - We need an Elemental Blast Bomb. Change Deconstructor to Elemental. If we're keeping Construct Bonus, lower its raw damage output.

Eh? Eh?

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 11:23

Triplescrew

But there must be enough raw

But there must be enough raw damage for it to be effective.

It should be able to quickly deal with Gunpuppies. Faster than Nitro at least. Otherwise there is no point.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 11:31

Rhons

Comparison for You

Let's take the Cold Iron Vanquisher versus the Leviathan Blade and Compare them to Our New Deconstructor and Nitronome.

CIV deals less raw damage than Leviathan Blade, but deals more damage to Undead than L. Blade due to Bonus (and if no other factors were kept).

I was proposing the same for our two Bombs. Given that the Deconstructor would be Elemental, it would already be extra powerful versus Construct, despite lowering its damage. The extra Damage Bonus to Construct would serve to only help deal more damage.

... So... Yes, it would still be powerful enough to quickly dispatch Gun Puppies and Mecha Knights and everything else that gives you cold sweats at night, despite losing raw damage.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 14:01

Sir-Pandabear

I can math this out. You can follow along with the chart if you would like to.

I'm assuming Deconstructor follows the same ratios as Leviathan Blade and Cold Iron Vanquisher.

Where Levi blade deals 324 raw damage (no defence, for instance against lost souls or using a recon flare) on depth 24, Cold Iron Deals 307. This is 5% less damage than Levi.

Nitronome deals 7.5% more damage than Levi, 348. When you subtract neutral defence, this ends up at 217.

A 5* Heavy Decon (with a 5% reduction from that) would deal a raw damage of 330. This comes out as 199 damage vs neutral enemies and 265 vs undead. Add the 12% bonus that comes with high damage, and a volcanic demo user would inflict roughly 304 damage against constructs. That's over 40% more than Nitronome does against constructs, and even 7.5% more damage than DBB does against beasts/fiends. A worthy addition to any bomber's arsenal!

tl;dr
5% less damage than nitronome but ends up at effectively 40% stronger than nitro vs constructs.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 14:21

Rhons

Thanks, Sir-Pandabear

For calculating out the damages proposed!

So, continuing from Pandabear, this is where I would side on this topic. Heck, even -10% Damage it could still be much more effective against Constructs.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 14:35

Sir-Pandabear

Let's not nerf it too hard, now! Let's also keep in mind when both Nitronome and Heavy Deconstructor are both at max damage!

Nitronome/Dark Briar Barrage

Raw: 431
Beast/Fiend: 365
Neutral: 301

5* Heavy Decon (5% reduction)

Raw: 409
Construct/Undead343
Fiend/Slime: 278

5* Heavy Decon (10% reduction)

Raw: 409
Construct/Undead322
Fiend/Slime: 256

At 10% reduction, the 5* heavy decon only ends up a piddling 7% over Nitronome against constructors, while at 5% reduction it has a 14% edge. Any more than 10% is certainly out of the question.

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 19:32

Rhons

Thanks for the Math

Again, Pandabear!

All right; do we all agree at Five Percent?

Sun, 06/12/2016 - 20:13

Dagunner

Nope!

I think we should go with 65%, that is the only way it will be balanced....

jks, this seems pretty good, and is well needed

Mon, 06/13/2016 - 03:55

#10

Vohtarak-Forum

So thats what you were doing on the discord server
good idea, can't really dispute over numbers like that

Tue, 06/14/2016 - 04:35

#11

Putkisen-Seta

+1-1

I kinda wanna see them remade to function like the gremlin bomber ones do since that's the model used. Instant placement, X bombs active at a given time, CTR lowers detonation time considerably, charge to throw a cluster. Shard bombs would also be more useful with that mechanic, minus the throw.

I suppose the lazy approach has its merits. And it's not like it'd close the door.

Tue, 06/14/2016 - 06:30

#12

Triplescrew

Alright... Lets talk bout

Alright... Lets talk bout utility.

Movement speed reduction. I think it should be low or medium. ( You need to walk fast when chased by Rockets and Mechaknights)

Radius and Fuse time. 3 tiles and 2 seconds. Slightly smaller than rest of them. No knockback.

Attack rate. 70. Like Nitro.

With these stats it will be small and fast bomb, that doesnt annoy your teammates by random pushing. To resemble gremlin bombing style.

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Shift Deconstructor line one star up and make it Elemental.