Spiral Knights - new haze(?) bombs

new haze(?) bombs

15 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/27/2016 - 19:16

Nitronomer

warning: long backstory, skip this paragraph to get to the good part

currently, I've been playing bomber all my life, no swords, no guns, nothing (except this past week where I found out about catalyzer). I'd always have my trusty fiery atomizer on me at all times and a secondary haze bomb like lightning or freezing. I would usually just place the fiery around the place and alternate with lighting to add extra dps, or use freezing in case of fiends or kats. My only problem was fire levels. Id have to do like freezing and a blast bomb which I wasnt very good at using, and my friends all hated it because of the explosion, so i tried to use it minimally, and even when I tried, it was just really annoying to me too.

Tl;Dr: I really hate the bomb knockback.

I really dislike it when enemies are flung around or thrown all over the place, but just the pure damage of haze bombs, so I thought of 3 new bombs

_____rock spike bomb________

when detonated, makes a field of spikes from the ground (lasts as long as a haze bomb)

deals piercing damage

_____radiant bomb___________

when detonated, releases a blinding light (lasts as long as a haze bomb)

deals elemental damage

_____dusk bomb_____________

when detonated, release a shroud of darkness (lasts as long as a haze bomb)

deals shadow damage

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 00:39

Sir-Turtlebear

Have you considered using Dark Briar Barrage and Dark Retribution.

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 03:36

Triplescrew

I would like Crystal bomb

I would like Crystal bomb Tweak instead. To at least make it possible to hit stuff reliably with those.

Because we have enough bombs...But not all of them are alright and need some tweaks.

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 10:01

Fangel

wut

"we have enough bombs"

Look at this guy thinking we have enough bombs.

Shard bombs themselves are just in a bad spot, but bombs do really need more variation. As it stands we have blast, vortex, mist, shard, and spin. That's, what, 5 or so different bomb variations? One is locked behind a DLC wall too. Not too impressive.

However at the same time we don't need to take existing mechanics and turn them into other roles. DBB is useful as a no-knockback blast bomb, but it's still the same mechanic of place n' 'splode. I would rather see new mechanics in general, such as a "pulse" bomb that fires 3 pulses like a grim totem that deals damage and status per pulse, a toxigel bomb that acts like old RSS but with RNG instead of 8-directional, and blast network bombs with limited range. All three of those would make bombing more interesting than "pierce is DBB, shadow is DR, knockback is nitro, status is mist, control is vortex, pain is shards".

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 11:29

Nitronomer

@Triplescrew

im pretty sure there are less bomb types than sword and gun types...

But "some" bombs (*ahem* crystalbombs *ahem*) do need quite a bit of tweaking

@Fangel

pulse bombs seem pretty cool, but I wouldn't think it would be all that great with knockback (so grey havens, if you implement this, dont add knockback please)

And arent toxigels those poison chomalisk guys? It would be cool to just have their spit fly out and deal a status effect

would the bomberman bomb have knockback? I imagine it as a 4-directional brandish

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 12:29

Fangel

things and stuff

If I were to design the bombs, pulse bombs would have no knockback and probably come in elemental/shock and shadow/stun variants. Probably slow you down to vortex placement speed too. With CTR it would just get more and more powerful the more of these bombs you place so making sure they aren't too OP would be good. These are essentially damage mist bombs with only 3 total ticks.

Toxigels are the poison slimes. You know that ranged spinny attack they have? Yeah, turn that into a bomb. Give the 5* variant nitronome range. Pierce and normal variants.

Blast network bomb could have knockback and lower individual explosion damage. I'd imagine it'd blow up in each direction once per star level, therefore making 5* explode 5 times outwards, essentially the 4-directional brandish. I'd say normal, elemental, and shadow variants, however it could come in a pierce flavor too.

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 12:42

Triplescrew

I mean....We have enough HAZE

I mean....We have enough HAZE bombs.

What Nitro suggested is just 3 more haze bombs with raw damage.

What if instead of haze....It was like firecracker (many small explosives linked together). You plant it...and it start generating small explosions around itself that deal damage.

Line will start at 3 star.

Bomb generate 5 consecutive explosion ticks. Explosions occur rapidly within bomb radius and in random pattern (not overlapping though) .

3* bomb generate 1 explosion per tick. Explosion spawn area radius is 2 tiles.
4* bomb generate 2 explosions per tick. Explosion spawn area radius is 3 tiles.
5* bomb generate 3 explosions per tick. Explosion spawn area radius is 4 tiles.

Its something between Orbiting and Crystal type. Explosions are small and dont push enemies.

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 14:17

Fangel

Yeah we have plenty of haze bombs. I wouldn't be against a curse shadow mist bomb however, but more mist bombs totally not needed.

Tue, 06/28/2016 - 15:47

Nitronomer

ohhh

@Triplescrew

Thats something I could get behind. as long as the explosions dont do too much knockback then I'd probably use that a whole lot too. And the mini explosions would probably trap some enemies in the barrage of explosions too.

And yeah, there are hazes for each status except curse and sleep, I honestly think there are too many, but at the same time I want more?

@Fangel

too bad faust is the only curse weapon, since its my favourite status effect...OH MY GOD a curse mist would be so freaking awesome

Wed, 06/29/2016 - 03:37

Triplescrew

Yeah...Curse haze would be

Yeah...Curse haze would be rad....Maybe as SL Vana reward. I heard zombies here have curse breath.
It can even look like zombie head...With seal on it.

But Curse duration must be short... 5-7 seconds or so. It should also be able to curse owner when planted.

As prerequisite....Haze Burst.

Wed, 06/29/2016 - 12:53

#10

Fangel

Too few testing points

The only source of curse in the game right now is strong curse. Mist bombs inflict minor status. Hence, minor curse from a ist bomb would be much less powerful than people make it out to be. I would simply say make it a 4* mist bomb radius if any nerf, as the bomb itself won't be too bad.

Only problem with a curse mist bomb is that players will be constantly inflicted with curse, therefore switching up what item(s) of theirs are cursed. Good side is that minor curse would likely only curse 1 slot on a player with no protection against it, however it would throw players who run chaos/black kat sets in for a loop still, which is sort of needed. Would be nice for gremlins and even fiends too.

If not a mist bomb some sort of blast bomb would be nice. Imagine a BAB with curse instead of stun! I'd be down for that, it'd be rad.

Thu, 06/30/2016 - 10:19

#11

Nitronomer

5-7?

Ive tested out the duration of haze by placing it next to a timed explosive block. The haze disappears as soon as the block explodes, so I'm pretty sure they just have 3 second durations, and I think anything less would be pretty hard to use

Fri, 07/01/2016 - 10:01

#12

Fangel

not the mist duration

Pretty sure triplescrew means how long curse lasts, not the mist it generates.

With minor curse, I would assume it to be about 1/3rd as powerful as strong curse. If regular curse curses neutral players for 40 seconds, minor would curse neutral players for ~14 seconds. I would even go as far as for minor to inflict for 15 seconds for neutral, 30 seconds for weak, and 6 seconds for resistant (but not immune). Minor might curse up to 3 weapons/consumables at max vulnerability, and only touch one weapon at higher resistance levels, with one of each at neutral.

Give curse the poison status treatment if anything. It needs long infliction times to be worthwhile in the clockworks, and in PvP plenty of players will be weak to the status, making it their fault for bringing only black kat and chaos to the battlefield.

Sat, 07/02/2016 - 05:16

#13

Sir-Pandabear

The duration of minor curse is not a secret. It is 34 seconds. You can reproduce it by getting cursed while wearing one piece of curse resistant armour.

Here is a chart:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGf7OsZNetwQIe2MDkc947EWRPEzqBhd...

(Curse duration is on row 30)

Sat, 07/02/2016 - 12:03

#14

Fangel

Well there it is

Due to how uncommon curse is and how common curse weak gear is, it's not unlikely people don't know how effective a minor curse situation would be.

That being said, strong curse is at +4 strength normally, assuming no resistance? Just out of curiosity, wouldn't full valkyrie be at the strength -4 area? In that case I know it lasts 22 seconds as a valkyrie due to how often I've been cursed in lockdown in that. Granted it's usually self curse, so my first question is: is self curse weaker/stronger than the gran faust hit/phantom curse? Second one is

But yeah, if minor curse was at the -2 level on that chart, it'd be an alright status as it currently stands. Minor curse should curse 1 weapon to make it not devastating if added as a mist bomb, especially since constant re-affliction will make it dangerous to combo unless the infliction ticks like you.

Sat, 07/02/2016 - 13:31

#15

Sir-Pandabear

Self-curse/self-fire from Faust/Fang have different strengths and durations from the regular status charts. I do not know why this is, but I know the damage is affected by the sword's damage bonus. Possibly heat, but that's untested.

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new haze(?) bombs