Spiral Knights - Helping out the New Knights

Helping out the New Knights

4 replies [Last post]

Sun, 09/18/2016 - 09:36

Revivify

Hey all,

I've just returned from a fourteen months hiatus from SK, and playing again really made me realize just how fun SK is, but also how frustrating and annoying it can be. Even for a Vanguard, some aspects of the game are difficult. However, new players are being stuck with the bulk of this frustration, causing many new recruits to leave the game. I'll be talking about two of those aspects today and providing suggestions. I welcome feedback, and hope this might help Grey Havens.

1) Energy Prices

Rewind back to 2014 when I first began SK. The cost of 100 energy on the market was floating around 6.5k. At the time, I thought that was an unbelievable annoying grind. I'd have to run RJP 3 or 4 times in order to save up 100 energy. In total, each of us veterans had to save up thousands of energy in order to meet gear requirements and get our five star gear.

If you were a knights starting today, with the market for energy being near 10k, the grind is even more tedious and out of control than before.

To proceed from 4 to 5 star gear, it would've costed a knight 208k cr in 2014 to buy those eternal orbs off the supply depot. Today, it would cost 320k. Yeah. Not fair for new knights.

"But Indusk, you can just grind for those orbs!" you might say. That's quite true. It's what I did to acquire my eternal orbs, but it is undeniable that drop rates for those orbs are low, and the continuous grind for those orbs turn players away from the game as well. Over all, either way, new knights are facing even larger pay/grind walls than before.

My suggestion? The best way to address this is for new content to come out, that way, people have a reason to purchase more energy and help deflate the current prices of energy.I'm not talking about a new lockbox, I'm talking about a new DLC mission like OCH. I know that this would take quite a lot of work, especially since Grey Havens is small, but it would both help the energy prices go down, and satisfy the players who are calling for new content.

2) Assisting New Knights

Let's admit it, SK gives just about no incentive for veterans to help out rookies. Why would you take the time to do RJP instead of Vanaduke, especially when the latter gives better loot? Unless the new knight is a guildmate/close friend/complete stranger that you feel pity for, most knights aren't going to volunteer their time.
Other RPGs have incentives for carrying these new knights to glory. Having new players feel the warmth of a playerbase is what really keeps people in the game.
This is why I've come up with a innovative (and confusing) system.
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"The Mark System" (Not to be confused with Marxism, that's something else)

As a way to reward for partying with new knights through the four major dungeons (Gloaming Wildwoods, Royal Jelly Palace, Ironclaw Munitions Factory and Firestorm Citadel), the Mark System will provide bonus rewards for all party members who do the mission from Lobby to the final elevator.

How it Works:
There are two different types of "Marks", the "Veteran's Mark" and the "Rookie Mark".

If you are the correct rank for the dungeon, or the rank directly above it, you will be able to purchase a "Rookie Mark" from Basil in the lobby. (For example, Knight Elites and Defenders will be able to purchase Rookie Mark for Ironclaw Munitions factory"

If you are at least 2 ranks above, you will be able to purchase a "Veteran's Mark" from Basil in the main lobby. (A Defender Elite can purchase the "Veteran's Mark and guide new players through IMF)

Both marks are free, and they are added to your belt next to your vitapod. Like a vitapod, they disappear if you leave the dungeon.

When all party members reach any elevator in the dungeon and pass a level of it, their "Marks" will grant them bonus rewards for that level. THERE NEEDS TO BE AT LEAST ONE KNIGHT WITH EACH MARK IN ORDER FOR THE EXTRA REWARDS TO BE GRANTED.

What bonus rewards are there?
For those bearing the Rookie Mark: Amplified heat, small amounts of gold and extra mats. On rare occasions, an orb of alchemy may be granted,
For those bearing the Veteran's Mark: Items in each level's slot machine are upgraded, the more rookies you carried through, the better the rewards in the slot machine will be. Prizes include: 3 packs of Spark of Life, 500 gold pack, 5 casino coin, mats, and on rare occasions, a variant ticket.

Why this system works:
1)Since you purchase your marks in the lobby, this ensures that you were in on the mission from the very beginning.
2)Marks are free, but veteran marks take 3 hours to restock. This prevents exploits.
3)The amplified cr will give new players a boost and help them along their way.

I know that this might have been confusing, but please provide feedback/ ask for clarification.

Sun, 09/18/2016 - 17:01

Fangel

Hmm

The biggest problem with Spiral Knights has never been energy prices - it's been the pacing.

The energy market is simply a reflection of how the current energy to crowns situation is going. In the past, energy was useful for everyone who played the game - new players and veterans alike needed to use energy to play the game past the 100 energy mark. This turned off new players and old players, however those who found ways "around" the system could enjoy the game and profit as much as they'd like.

Ever since August of 2013, energy has become significantly less useful to veterans, but has remained equally as important for newer players. As time has gone on, veterans have moved onto the more profitable "elite" difficulty, pumping more crowns into the system, whereas newer players are playing on the "normal" difficulty, making them earn less than they did in the old days.

On top of this, the game's mission system is pretty terrible at making new players realize that they should be farming... Until they reach the royal jelly mission. At that point they are forced to grind to continue, and that only gets worse at every hall of heroes after that point.

So, the problem is that the game throws players into a situation where they need funds and resources to progress, however players don't know how to get money, and don't know where to look for resources. Hence, they become beggers in haven, and eventually quit unless they buckle down and grind, or find another player who will help them grind.

However, additional crown sinks being introduced into the game (which make players trade energy for crowns more rapidly, thus reducing energy's prices on the market) that are desirable and fun would do so much for keeping the energy prices in check. Luckily, since the casinos and more regular featured auctions, we've seen a decline so that energy is again under 10k crowns.
Let it be known that 10k crowns for 100 energy is not that bad. Elite mode's crown inflation has been a huge cause in this, thus making new players learn about elite difficulty (or at least automatically bumping them up to advanced once they reach tier 2) would do wonders for their wallets.

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As for your idea on making veterans play with newer players, the rarity's tier system is supposed to encourage farming at lower levels... But it sort of falls short due to newbies playing on normal difficulty and veterans playing on elite. I'm almost certain that if veterans were given a "rarity chance boost" for helping someone lower ranked than them (ie, every box a lower ranked person breaks has a rank-related increased chance to drop rarities) it would make veterans help them in a heartbeat.

Only problem here is dragging squire alts, but I'd say what rarities veterans are after should be determined by the rank of who they're helping (IE, defender elite = more likely to find elite orbs and shining fire crystals, champion = more likely to find eternal orbs and radiant fire crystals, etc). Still has a bit of an alt problem, but really, any system where you help lower star knights will have that issue - just needs to be inconvenient to do, not impossible.

Sun, 09/18/2016 - 18:30

Revivify

Some opinions from me

I've always attributed the current soaring costs of CE to the fact that energy was actually in higher demand than cr. (There are more CE sinks in game than CR sinks).

Unfortunately, I have to disagree that 10k cr for 100 CE isn't that bad. Yes, it's not that bad for veterans, who can cover 9k cr with a 25 min Vana run, but for newbies who are averaging 2-3k from RJP, that means extensive grinds. I don't think that telling newbies to start playing in elite mode will solve the problem: it only floods the market with more CR, which might make CE all the more expensive. I just don't like the idea of having new players struggle with increasingly large paywalls.
But you are quite right that new players have trouble earning money for themselves. After all, the average age of our playerbase is probably a few years younger than that of most RPGs.

My suggestion for the veteran-newbie co-op system suggests upgrading the slot machine at the end of each lv for veterans. Everyone loves playing the lottery. I'm not too afraid of alt dragging if a veteran can only claim the rewards every few hours.

Sun, 09/18/2016 - 23:55

Fangel

Well, either your veteran farms with newbies, and therefore helps them get cash... Or they run a lower tier mission every so often.

This only helps players who farm boss missions. If you're farming boss missions, even as a newbie, you'll be doing it for the cash, and therefore elite difficulty.

Don't forget that the arcade exists - it's a very handy place to make money. We just had an arcade gate expire today that was netting me an average 12k per run, and most of that was from the final 3 depths of the run.

CE is significantly less useful now-a-days to players. It's just another currency. The problem is the ratio of crowns to energy makes energy prices higher as more crowns are in the system, simply because players who do want energy have more crowns in total. Only issue is, players don't desire crowns over energy or energy over crowns, so this "supply/demand" will simply rise due to inflation. You see it change whenever one is suddenly desirable - such as during slime casinos it dropped nearly 2k.

100CE for 10k is only unreasonable for tier 1 players. Tier 1 players are marched into tier 2 pretty quickly, so it's not that big of a deal in the long run.
Tier 2 players can make 3.5k from one royal jelly run, or 7-9k in a tier 2 arcade run. This means they have to do 3 RJP runs or 2 arcade runs. Due to the depths of these areas, they will find the orbs of alchemy they are looking for.

A while back I created an alt, and with my knowledge of the game, went forwards to see how the new systems worked. In all honestly, I didn't have to do much grinding... Instead, I ran the arcade between missions and I had more than enough resources to tackle the next hall of heroes. The game does not put enough emphasis on the arcade, so new players overlook it. The arcade really does have so much to offer in it, and a solution that is "only play boss missions" will only pull away from that experience even more.

It would be better for missions to unlock slowly, and more or less force players to run through the arcade in order to progress. This would allow them to collect money, gain energy, and complete that hall of heroes mission when they reach it.

Tue, 09/20/2016 - 12:52

Sgt-Brownie

Just passing by...

To expand on what's been said around here, I think a nifty idea would be to automatically set the difficulty of a mission higher up once said mission was completed (E.g. you complete the RJP mission on Normal difficulty, then the next time you select the same mission the difficulty bar would be automatically set to Advanced and so forth). It would be just an ergonomic thing, as you'd still be able to choose the difficulty you want yourself, but it'd help newer players get into the hang of doing missions at a higher difficulty for more loot.

And for added ergonomic boost, there could also be a pop-up text appear on a selected mission you've already completed at a lower difficulty to further suggest doing said mission at a higher difficulty ("You have already completed this mission on X difficulty. Why not try completing it on X+1 difficulty? The enemies will get tougher, but you will also get more loot out of them."). Again, it would be there for purely ergonomic reasons as you'd be able to ignore the pop-up through a "Never Ask Again" check box, but just seeing it once would be enough to get the point across for newer players.

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Helping out the New Knights