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Ultimate PvP

5 replies [Last post]
Wed, 10/12/2016 - 13:40
Fangel's picture
Fangel

Ever look at the current state of PvP gamemodes and been like "wow, this is sorta unbalanced". Then you look at the power creep and get sorta sad?

Now we could do what everyone in the past has said and remove all the things that are overpowered... But what if we completely reversed that thinking. What if we just made everything extreme and crazy?

I'll start off with the simpler one here.
Ultimate Blast Network

    Using current assets:
  • Players take two hits to kill
  • Players start with 5 of all power-ups
  • All power-up caps are increased by 2
  • New, rare healing power-up. Restores players to 2 hits if they've lost one
  • Using new assets:

  • Players can place bombs while in their invincible respawn time. During this time however, their bombs are not solid (people can walk through them), but the explosions will still hurt any non-invincible player
  • New 5 second invincibility power-up
  • Players can "kick" their bombs 5 tiles by shielding next to them.

Blast Network is now crazier from the get-go. Hop in and throw bombs all over the place!

And now, for the crazier one. At least, in terms of actual playing.
Ultimate Lockdown

    Using current assets:
  • All player base health is doubled. This accounts for class health buffs, as well as armor health boosts
  • All class buffs and debuffs are doubled, other than health buffs/debuffs
  • On death, players drop a tier-appropriate consumable
    • All consumables not used by respawn are removed from your toolbelt
  • Battle sprites and their sprite perks are allowed, but are tier locked like all other gear pieces
  • Shield bash is allowed. Unique properties would be cool, but default bash properties works too
  • Orb buffs drop in groups of 3 (one of each) whenever a point is captured
  • Points to win increased by 100 for both 3-point maps and 5-point maps
  • Using new assets:

  • An "invulnerability orb" that lasts 15 seconds is available inside the locker room
    • Invulnerable players take x2 knockback from all attacks
    • Invulnerable players have their shield health doubled, but their shield cannot recharge until the invulnerability orb expires
  • All buffs and debuffs are removed upon standing on a remedy heart
  • An ER buff can drop from enemies, rarely. This will revive you on the spot rather than faster from the locker room
  • Health revives re-implemented for teammates whose bodies have not returned to the locker room yet
    • Sudden death:
    • Enabled at the end of every game
    • Control points stop generating score once active
    • Remedy health pads + invulnerability orbs become disabled
    • Disabled timed revives and spark revives
    • Player bodies remain on the battlefield and can only be revived via a health revive
    • Mist gates to the locker room open
    • Whichever team has the last player alive gains a bonus 100 capture points

Like past LD suggestions I've made, this gamemode would be randomly selected in normal LD games. Guild VS Guild Lockdown games would have an option for choosing which mode they wanted.

Wed, 10/12/2016 - 13:41
#1
Fangel's picture
Fangel
OP was looking big and scary so i put this into a different post

You might be wondering what this looks like. Here's a quick comparison of the classes before and after:
(For the record, we're using tier 3 values)
Striker
- 5 base health > 10 base health
- Sword ASI: medium > Sword ASI: very high
- Sword DMG bonus: medium > Sword DMG bonus: very high
- Bomb charge time increase: very high > bomb charge time increase: maximum (can't go -8, but if we could we would)

Recon
- 12 base health > 24 base health
- Gun ASI: low > Gun ASI: medium
- CTR: medium > CTR: very high
- Bomb CTR: medium > Bomb CTR: very high
- Sword ASD: low > Sword ASD: medium

Guardian
- 14 base health > 28 base health
- Sword ASI: low > Sword ASI: medium
- Bomb CTR: low > Bomb CTR: medium
- Gun ASD: low > Gun ASD: medium

Adding in gear health values, you'll find that as a 5* trinketless striker you're marching around with 30 base health. That's more than current penta strikers have, and it creates prolonged and more intense fights.

Thu, 11/03/2016 - 15:32
#2
Addisond's picture
Addisond
Only reading the lockdown part

To me, this seems like more likely to make LD chaotic than to give it the kind of variety that most people complain about - for the most part, you're just taking mechanics from other areas of the game and throwing them into lockdown. I can say that having more timer-based effects (sprites) could make the gameplay a *little* more dynamic, but otherwise this is mostly just extra noise.

As someone who played a lot of LD 3 years ago, I can say that I remember the biggest problem being overpowered game-slowing mechanics (polaris, mist bombs), and the extra health, and team revs, make this look like more of that.

I will also say that the substantive aspect of LD (sword/gunplay, good cancelling mechanics) is pretty heavily impeded by a lack of servers and good network programming, so if we're thinking about new modes of PvP, I'd rather look more into slower paced team strategy - we already have plenty of spam-action in LD.

Fri, 11/04/2016 - 11:32
#3
Fangel's picture
Fangel
sort of the point

As it stands, there is a clear line between a fortunate player and a good player. Fortunate players will find themselves with better ping, gear, etc, whereas a good player needs none of these to play well.

When you "make everything slower and more strategic", you lose the entire appeal of the fast paced arcade-ish gameplay everyone plays lockdown for. You'll hardly ever find people playing lockdown to be slow and methodical - you'll find people seeking fast paced combat.
(Note: some people do like being slow and methodical. However, judging by the severe lack of recons that cloak and guardians that protect teammates, people like PvP to fight. Go figure)

By making everyone OP from the start, it makes P2W players less extreme. It also lets players with little to no experience feel powerful as they take hit after hit and can actually get a hit or two of their own in. Cobalt players in this gamemode would get the same damage bonus with swords as chaos users have all the time!

No-one likes to be beat by someone who is impossible to kill because of UVs, trinkets, ping, etc. However, everyone likes to be powerful. When everyone is powerful, everyone feels like they can do something, as even the weakest player can survive against the strongest long enough to get a hit in.

Fri, 11/04/2016 - 12:56
#4
Addisond's picture
Addisond

When I said "slower and more strategic", I meant for different, non-LD gamemodes. I don't know if your proposals would make LD more "strategic", but they would certainly make it slower.

Though I agree that this would make it less likely for players to die without ever damaging their opponent, I don't think this would necessarily make UV'd trinket players less powerful. To the contrary, I think this mode would make it vastly harder to find ways to play skillfully - that is what I mean by "chaotic": more players are alive at once, so spamming big-AoE weapons naturally becomes most effective.

Rather than giving players opportunities to outplay their gear level, as LD currently does, this leaves players in brute-force matchups of gear. The high-expense UVs that are sought after (or were sought after at the time I played lockdown - armor with shock resistance and extra defenses, swords and guns with ASI) were considered to be at their most beneficial when everyone was spamming polaris in GvG - and I imagine that giving everyone more health would make territorial polaris-mist bomb tactics even more viable than they are currently - why would you spend your time killing someone when they respawn in half the time it took to kill them? Wouldn't you rather territorially deny them, permanently?

I agree that giving all players higher bonuses would cancel out certain UV-advantages, and giving more health would cancel out trinket advantages to an extent, but if you're looking to nerf the mid-level "entry requirements" for LD, t2 was imo a much better game than what you're describing here, and it eventually died because players wanted the advantages that gear allowed them*. I imagine this mode being utterly ignored by lockdown regulars, and having difficulty gaining traction from the LD-disinterested and new players.

*t2 did have it's own low-bar of entry, which was likely raised by the alchemy-orb economic update, in part because of gear being more annoying to heat, and in part because of the removal of mist, which makes trinket slots 3x more expensive.

Thu, 11/24/2016 - 22:31
#5
Fallen-Feces's picture
Fallen-Feces
why not?

why not in the process adding things like Team DM or just 1v1 or 1v1v1 etc. A place for players to test their strength against each other without the interference of others in LD. Right now, the PvP side of SK is AWFUL in my opinion so i want for there to be many more parts to make there be much more to do other than grinding for random weapons and doing "/zone WTB or WTS (item name) for hours upon hours after u beat DaN... Im probobly gna make my own thread on this new PvP thing that i just said but not right now. Its like 11:30 pm for me so GOODNIGHT

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