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Make revives time based to mimic the way the old revives worked.

18 replies [Last post]
Tue, 10/25/2016 - 23:27
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

On a per run (not per floor) basis:

First revive = 45 seconds of waiting
Second revive = 90 seconds
Third revive (and all after) = three minutes

Entire party is down? = Back to Haven in thirty seconds unless someone sparks or has their timer ready.

No more emergency revive. That's good but now you have this as a safety net.

Players must click on people to revive them.

Sparks of life would stay. Energy revives would stay. You get out? You come back as long as a team member is alive. This mimics the way the old revives worked because now it's based on party rather than individual, but keeps the new and improved not-dying-everywhere mechanics. Sparks of life would still be very needed for difficult areas that players aren't prepared for, and would still be nice to have for skipping the timer.

Wed, 10/26/2016 - 10:24
#1
Fangel's picture
Fangel
huh this is pretty neat

I'm trying to think of a scenario where this wouldn't be helpful but it really works pretty great. 3 minutes is a long time for an action game, so hard areas would still require sparking. Team wipes should also negate any timer currently active so that it requires a spark to avoid returning to haven, and reset them upon someone sparking (from 3 minutes down to 15 seconds, you're out for another 3 minutes from the team wipe. Better to just spark in this case).

My only question would be how much health is revived by this method. Sparks give full health, but would a timed revive revive full red hearts like an ER? Or perhaps they would only restore half your HP. Maybe even just revive you with 3 pips of health like a clockworks elevator, making sparks mandatory for difficult content if you're taking a lot of hits.

Have to say I really do like this idea. It's a look at revive mechanics that I haven't even considered before.

Wed, 10/26/2016 - 11:36
#2
Addisond's picture
Addisond
exploits

It'd work well for closed fights but it's extremely exploitable - I imagine people just waiting for revs in safety instead of sparking, all the time. Maybe even sending 3/4 in to die, then waiting, to get full heals.

Wed, 10/26/2016 - 13:11
#3
Fangel's picture
Fangel
eh

Sure, but in the time it takes to have people revive (up to 3 minutes) you could be finishing the level.

Well here's another idea, what if after the timer was up, a player had to run by and do the whole "activate your body" thing that old health revives did? It wouldn't split health but it'd prevent random revives and require one person to always be alive and able to pick people up.

Wed, 10/26/2016 - 14:19
#4
Addisond's picture
Addisond

Yeah I meant that people would do that for areas where they felt like they were in serious danger of wiping.

The old no-sparks rev system still seems better to me, so I like the activation requirement thing -- but I'd still prefer if players had to actually spend something to rev teammates (maybe a pill revs to a pill's worth of health?).

Wed, 10/26/2016 - 14:20
#5
Addisond's picture
Addisond

double post

Thu, 10/27/2016 - 08:40
#6
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

The activation requirement would be a good part of this... though it would cause backtracking a bit so IDK if it's necessary. I imagine it just going from use spark of life to revive for free, requiring the player to be there in case they went to get snacks during their wait.

As for people waiting that's their choice imo. Like you could do that and wait over and over, but every time you wait it adds another 3 minutes to your time, greatly watering down the reward to time spent ratio you get for completing the level. The way around would be through the fire and flame, though obviously waiting before major arenas would be a good ideas.. which is also fine. Very chill.

Just did ghosts in the machine. Guy I was with died and watched me for like twenty minutes while I destroyed. This would have helped him develop skills so hard, which is why I want it.

Fri, 10/28/2016 - 11:23
#7
Fangel's picture
Fangel
yeah

I like the idea of backtracking because people who don't want to get up have to make players go back for them, and if the player is so far ahead in the level they won't want to go back for them. This is a good thing because if players are moving fast then you'll need to use a spark of life to catch up, or wait for them to step on a party button and get you up. This also puts more emphasis on teamwork, and a player who is left behind won't suddenly revive a minute later and then have to make the party wait a full minute of walking for them to catch up.

A good way to think of it is that reviving has to have a penalty, and that penalty is always some sort of resource. Originally, it was team health, or if you were all down, paid energy. Then, it was rarities and energy. This proposes to use time as a penalty, which is more than enough to keep players from wanting to remain downed.

I think the only issue with this would be alt dragging since you can just wait 3 minutes and then get them back up, but with instanced loot now, alt dragging is not very easy to do anyways. I'd assume loot wouldn't spawn while players are downed either, like the current system.

Sat, 10/29/2016 - 07:07
#8
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

"I like the idea of backtracking"

I'mma stop you there. Sure, everything has some merit, but backtracking is dumb and I hate it.

"I think the only issue with this would be alt dragging"

Yes, loot wouldn't spawn while you were down, even if you were in the "press go to revive" phase of this. You would have to be up and at em. Alt dragging would be exactly as difficult and unrewarding as it is now, i.e. not an issue.

Sat, 10/29/2016 - 10:33
#9
Fangel's picture
Fangel
eh

I guess what I should rephrase that as is I like the idea of backtracking as a penalty. It's not really an obstacle but it's annoying. However, if you're a lower tiered or skilled player, you will go out of your way to go back and rescue a player that might be better than you. Similarly, if you're a high skilled player, you can just pick 'em up at the next party button if going back takes too long.

Players hate waiting. Players hate wasting time. So, what better way to penalize poor performance than to make them wait and/or waste their time? Since the game still runs on a "you do well your team does well" mentality, someone being down doesn't negatively affect your performance, and reviving them doesn't have any negative impact on you.

Mon, 10/31/2016 - 07:34
#10
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt
Don't you 'eh' me.

Sure, everything has some merit, but backtracking is dumb and I hate it.

Tue, 11/01/2016 - 11:56
#11
Fangel's picture
Fangel
:|

I'd prefer optional backtracking over a player being forcibly down forever. I also prefer a team backtracking for one player rather than a team waiting for one player to walk a minute and a half of time to catch up with them (imagine: you go down at the start of a lichenous lair. Then your timer comes back and your team is over halfway through, and you have to run to catch up to them. By the time they're at the elevator you won't even be halfway there).

Certain levels have various forms of backtracking anyways (ex: D25 of FSC, D26 of Crimson Chaos), and with party buttons teleporting players to you it relieves a party of going back across hazardous traps to revive someone when they can all just stand on a party button and teleport the body to them.

Tue, 11/01/2016 - 13:17
#12
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

This is why I don't post in suggestions very much any more. If it isn't Fangel approved it's "eh" and deserves to burn in the graveyard... and you're chums with Cronus and whoever, so guess what? I'm just wrong. Thanks Fangel. Thanks for commenting on my thread. I'll go change the OP for you. Looks like my ideas are just bad again, go team Fangel. What an excellent place to post, is Fangel's suggestion forum. Just. Swell.

Thu, 11/03/2016 - 12:12
#13
Addisond's picture
Addisond

o.O why are you so sensitive

Thu, 11/03/2016 - 13:38
#14
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

Because this is every post in the suggestions forum.

Thu, 11/03/2016 - 15:33
#15
Addisond's picture
Addisond

Hasn't the suggestions forum always been like this though? Single posts from random people, with comments from a few nitpicky regulars?

Fri, 11/04/2016 - 13:11
#16
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

Well, yes.. but

A) I'm genetically prone to this kind of thing. I take meds etc. for it but am still "just bad" and need to "get good" and cannot. I apologize for this much.

B) Fangel is like.. the chosen PR knight for the devs at this point. Like they stop in and say hi in game etc. so Fangel's opinions here, while not officially weighted any more than anyone else's are still more likely to be considered. Not complying, changing etc. would make my post seem less viable for this reason, and reflect poorly.

Imagine you're reading the suggestions and someone you value disagrees with some aspect of the suggestion. Likewise, imagine you're Cronus and I'm me and I've said quite a few things to offend Mr. Cronus. Even if my suggestions are good Cronus is still going to be biased away from me because lets face it, I'm a truly despicable person. I literally look like the guy from Despicable Me.

No, not the minions.

And let me clarify this one last time- you can try to be completely unbiased, but lets be honest- you were literally built to judge everyone and everything and to categorize them and stereotype them. If it weren't the case we wouldn't see issues with things such as racial diversity.

EDIT: Moving this thread to the graveyard. I'm scared of this conversation being "bad" and me getting banned. Have mercy on my soul please.

Fri, 11/04/2016 - 13:52
#17
Addisond's picture
Addisond

Yeah we're already good on A, I just never saw Fangel as a special cronus bud.

More than anything I'm pointing out that your "suggestions forum experience" is pretty much the same as everyone else's. There have been some notable extreme examples (luguiru) of this type of behavior (schizoid creative stuff), and I think that a LOT of the people who have posted regularly to this forum have been in a similar boat of futile creative exercises. You can post as much as you want, but the chances of having an actual impact on SK have, historically, been astronomical, and I don't actually know Fangel but I'd be surprised if he/she's got a much better shot of direct impact than you do.

Fri, 11/04/2016 - 13:55
#18
Addisond's picture
Addisond

In this post I test the functionality of graveyarding a post. Started the previous post before fehzor's edit, and apparently the mechanics have changed.

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