Spiral Knights - New team but what about the forging/weapon leveling system?

New team but what about the forging/weapon leveling system?

16 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/08/2017 - 15:28

Iveso

So, I had been out for quite a while-Again. But I noticed SK is under new management, so that raised my hopes as I am not sure when they changed the old forging/weapon leveling system.

Is there any chance we will getting the old forging system back? Because honestly SK became a very...Grindfest game. And it really isn't something you can simply shrug off and do another time, as you need to deal with those "quests" requiring you to have 1-2-3-4-5 star tiered weapons to proceed with the game. Obviously in the beginning it is pretty easy to deal with that, but when you reach 4 stars it is already very troublesome, especially with how little Knights we have in the game now. So going solo can be pretty boring or too repetitive as you will only depend of your luck during arcade to get the needed stuff for upgrading(The crystals).

Sure, I suspect there are people who prefers this system, but I feel like it takes away that feeling you are progressing in the game.

Sun, 01/08/2017 - 17:33

Flowchart

The orb system isn't much different than upgrading with CE, if you don't find the orbs you just buy them for the same price upgrading would have cost. It's still a grind though.

Sun, 01/08/2017 - 18:00

Bopp

orbs versus fire crystals

As Flowchart said, orbs cost the same amount of energy as the old system did. But in this new system, you also find orbs in the dungeon, so you can sometimes craft for free. On the other hand, the cost of energy is much higher now, so buying energy with crowns is more painful than it used to be.

The forge system is dramatically more grindy than the old heating system, when you reach 5 stars. But before 5 stars it's not terrible, and there is a tiny chance of forge prize boxes, and the big balancer is that elevators are free.

Sun, 01/08/2017 - 18:22

Iveso

I am not talking about the

I am not talking about the orbs, I am talking about the crystals used to level up your weapons. I might have used the wrong words, by "upgrading" I meant leveling them up. As previously you only needed to get HEAT and nothing else to level them up. I have nothing against the orbs, honestly it isn't THAT hard to get orbs when compared to crystals.

And unless you are REALLY lucky, you might only find 2-5 crystals per area, some you find none. And a lot of those advanced areas are no joke to deal with solo.

Sun, 01/08/2017 - 18:33

Wqkipedia

Yeah

I personally only have 3 fully heated 5* items, it's kinda sad because I took a long break in like 2012 and didn't have 5* gear then (I have done my bulk of my playing post battle sprites), I come back to a grindfest in regards to heating. I do love the free elevators though. I agree that while it is very annoying to heat 5* items, at least you are able to grind consistently for stuff rather than the old system.

On a side note how bad is only 3 fully heated 5* items (All weapons because I only heat armor to level 5) for a 50k prestige Vanguard (I know prestige isn't an accurate measurement really).

Mon, 01/09/2017 - 03:56

Fangel

probably not

As far as I can tell, Grey Havens doesn't have any plans to revert any changes made to the game over the course of its lifespan. They aim to add onto the existing bits of the game, although manage to do that slower rather than faster.

The way I see it, we would more likely see an entirely new system before we see the forge removed. The forge itself isn't too bad, it's the fire crystal drop rates. Should those be more normalized rather than being so awkward to find, I'm sure we'd be pretty content with it.

Mon, 01/09/2017 - 05:11

Qever

The problem is with

The problem is with radiants..And maybe not them too but the boredom to redo the same levels again and again.If they had higher drop in tier 3 arcade it would be nice.They force you to do 2-3 missions(vana,dan or a danger mission)..
Sadly i took another break from sk cause i am bored.I hope we see an update that matters..

Mon, 01/09/2017 - 17:26

Iveso

If that's the case, it REALLY

If that's the case, it REALLY is a pity. I do love Spiral Knight's concept, the whole thing of chibi knights with guns and shields and the dungeon crawling aspect. But yeah, even if they don't change it back, they could at least increase the crystal drop rate, because at the moment it is a grindfest. This isn't the right way to make a game long, it is just boring.

Especially at tier tree, the arcade mode isn't something easy to deal with, especially at the compound levels if you are going solo. Both repetitive and time-consuming.

Mon, 01/09/2017 - 21:33

Azurestratos

Devilite gonna devil

I'll play Satan's advocate here and ask:

Why do you want to heat 5* gear to level 10?

Its not like you need it for upgrade. (no 6* gear)

Level 5 is doable, and further increase in stats are minor.

Apart from weapon CTR low increase (which is only minor problem if you have chaos or uv), other perks are arguably small.

Especially for armors and shields.

Unless I'm missing something here? :3

Mon, 01/09/2017 - 22:39

Iveso

I am not only talking about 5

I am not only talking about 5 stars gear, I am talking about the previous tiers. Like, to reach said tier it is a pain in the ass, it is very difficult to get the crystals to level your gear up(Mostly 4 star tier to 5). So yes, you are sorta missing the point here, the issue is that after a while the whole grindfest can get very boring. And it isn't like something you can ignore and try to proceed with the story, as there is a "quest" requiring you to have a bunch of 5 stars items.

And I know some people will disagree, both because they already reached that tier and are well settled or simply because they have the free time to get that grindfest going. But unfortunately that is not the case for everyone, especially for people who are still curious about this game.

Tue, 01/10/2017 - 02:07

#10

Azurestratos

Buy crystals the same way orbs?

You can buy crystals same way you buy orbs.

Orbs cost energy, so does crystals. So if you don't want to grind, but upgrade with energy like old system, you absolutely can.

If energy cost too much, then that's CE inflation problem, not really game mechanics problem.

So, I'm wondering if I miss anything?

If the levels feel repetitive, then the solution is to add different levels or new enemies. Not changing the forge system.

Tue, 01/10/2017 - 04:28

#11

Fangel

When it comes to crystal costs, it's a pretty huge deal. It costs something like 6300 energy for enough radiants to level one 5* item to level 10 at 100%. In terms of cost, that's about $15-$18 for one 5* item. That's pretty crazy.

Meanwhile, pacing is a huge issue here. However, shining fire crystals are abundant in the arcade - running through an entire tier 3 gate can net you between 40 to 60 shining fire crystals. The 4* grind is balanced, the 5* one isn't. Adding additional missions or ways to get your hands on radiant fire crystals is the path to take, I feel. Everything up until then with the forge is fine, even if it does require some getting used to tier 3 in order to get what you need.

But at the end of the day, forcing you to play the game to level up your gear isn't necessarily a bad thing. At least with shinings it's reasonable.

Tue, 01/10/2017 - 06:03

#12

Fehzors-Forum-Alt

I hold two rather simple things, which have risen from these discussions.

1) The current system is too complicated, and should be simplified in some manner. I would suggest to merge fire crystals and orbs since those drop from the same location (boxes), make materials more rare (since those are clearly far too common) and reformat recipes such that there is only one purchase, and further upgrades simply cost crowns. There are many ways to go about all of this and what's important is the idea that it's all too complicated, not my own ideal implementation.

2) The grind and costs are appropriate up until radiant fire crystals, wherein the costs greatly deter players from branching out into more gear. Low radiant fire crystal drop rates are a serious issue for the game, as its relatively small amount of content relies greatly on replayability to satiate players... a large part of which comes from having new toys to use and learn in old situations.

Do carry on now.

Wed, 01/11/2017 - 00:38

#13

Fangel

If we make materials less common, we'll need another way to feed our battle sprites. Potentially feed them spark tokens? (Primal, Grim, Forge)

If that is the case as well, we'd need to make heating battle sprites through actual heating methods much more reasonable. As it stands, heating your sprite without feeding takes far too long.

Wed, 01/11/2017 - 07:11

#14

Fehzors-Forum-Alt

There are many ways to go about all of this and what's important is the idea that it's all too complicated, not my own ideal implementation.

(I'm also of the persuasion that because sprites were more an afterthought to the mineral and material systems that they should be an afterthought here as well, and not a major focus)

Wed, 01/11/2017 - 12:04

#15

Darklordskull

I just wish they'd do something about the two useless minerals. Once they removed the mineral boxes in the arcade, they just become inventory clutter.

Fri, 01/13/2017 - 01:03

#16

Neometal

Moon- and valestone have a minor usage for the prestige mission, but that's all.

Maybe they planned on having 2 more sprites in the future (I'd assume a freeze and a shock one) but never got into development.

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New team but what about the forging/weapon leveling system?