Spiral Knights - Tier 2: Am I stupid or missing something?

Tier 2: Am I stupid or missing something?

12 replies [Last post]

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 21:03

Valkier

Legacy Username

I've read some posts on this forum by various people about tier 2 and what to expect. At this point, I'm having a bit of trouble and wondering if I just made some poor equipment choices.

Currently I have a Tempered Calibur with a bonus to slimes
Wolven cap and armor
A bristling buckler
and a cryotech alchemer

Try as I may with a group backing me up, I get destroyed around depth 14 on. I'm starting to wonder if I just have some bad armor for the job. If this isn't the case, maybe I'm just not playing as well as I should? Any insight on my woes would be greatly appreciated.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 22:46

Metaphysic

Legacy Username

There's a colored dot in the

There's a colored dot in the corner of your minimap. If that dot starts turning red or purple, it means you're starting to go deeper than recommended for your current gear. While it's still possible to progress at those depths, it generally requires a fairly high skill level.

Since it appears all your gear is 2 stars, depth 14 is probably red or purple to you.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 01:20

Kathoric

Legacy Username

Depending on what type of

Depending on what type of level you're on, your current armor is probably leaving you vulnerable to a lot of damage. In T2, monsters deal "mixed" damage. That is, half the damage is Normal, and half depends on the type of monster (Pierce for wolvers, 'lisk tongue attacks, and the one jelly/slime attack, Shadow for undead and fiends, and Elemental for just about anything else. Unless you are on a level with wolvers and such, the Normal/Pierce defense from your Wolver gear is blocking at best half of the damage you take...

Given the different types of damage, you should probably invest in some alternate gear. For instance, the Magic Hood and Cloak give Normal/Elemental defense, while the Skelly Suit and Mask provide Normal/Shadow. I'd suggest mixing and matching gear so that you have *some* defense to three of the 4 possible attack types, picking which one to leave out based on what's *not* likely to appear in the Stratum you're going into. This won't completely solve the issue, since the game insists on popping monsters that are seemingly out-of-place (such as Wolvers or Spookats in a Mechanical Mile level), but it should reduce the damage you take from *most* of the monsters you encounter.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 02:19

Tipiak

Ok, contrary to what other

Ok, contrary to what other said, I think your gear is not that bad (especially for Slime or Beast strata).
However, starting with the second stratum of T2, skill (and the absence of lag) become much more necessary. You need to get used to the attack patterns of the different monsters and use shield-cancelling wisely, learn to kite properly even in small areas, switch between your weapons to get the best gear for the job, etc.
When you get wiped out, doesn't some of the other players in your party survive enough to revive you ?
If all of you get crushed, then may be you don't cooperate enough, sending monsters about to hit on other players, not using the effects the bombers might inflict, aggroing all gun puppies, etc.
Do you have problems whatever the opponents? Some more than others?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 03:38

Valkier

Legacy Username

Thanks for all the helpful

Thanks for all the helpful replies. this is a bit of a tangent, but I come from League of Legends where the community is.. volatile. It is extremely refreshing to see people here be so nice.

In reply to what the general question to me was:

My groups did tend to fan out and just try to ram through a lot of the levels. It worked till the second half of the tier, but it all came to an end in a deconstruction zone.

Now I did try it again solo because with a 3 star sword I seem to be able to two and three shot most enemies, if not outright decimate them with my charge up. Taking it much slower and more defensively, I did manage to get down to the Gremlin town on my own, so thanks for the advice you guys gave me. Now this was with me purposely avoiding the arena and graveyard maps, but I don't feel too bad about that.

So I also did invest in getting the Angelic Raiment since it gives a much wider range of defenses and the like. I'm also going to get an owlite shield to get some fire resistance going. I hope these are good moves. Otherwise, I'm wasting a lot of time and effort. :-(

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 03:52

Tipiak

The owlite line is considered

The owlite line is considered a safe bet : normal and elemental are the most common damages, fire and shock the most painful effects.
It is usually good to try and take your time and solo might be the way to go.
Arenas and Danger zones will give you a taste of the next level, so you can get to them, when you want to try that out ;)
Graveyards... well, it depends a lot on the number of people in your party (= the number of phantoms you'll face) and how used they are to that kind of fight. You might try to solo one, only one phantom allows you to do your job with your own rhythm, just use your alchemer (elemental dmg) and your shield !!!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 11:40

Aziraphaile

Legacy Username

For the record, a full set of

For the record, a full set of 2* gear is adequate for Tier 2. Perhaps not for the T2 boss, so much, but it should see you through most encounters perfectly well. So long as you don't approach them the same way you might in T1.

Patience is a skill many randoms have yet to learn. If you just forge ahead into huge packs of mobs, especially if you haven't gotten a handle on blocking shield pushing and shield cancelling effectively, you're going to get destroyed.

It helps to stick together. Take advantage of any cover and/or space that the game sees fit to give you. If you are presented with a room where lots of monsters are contained by walls of breakable blocks, don't break everything out at once. Break out a few at a time, and make sure they're dead before you free up any others.

Particularly in the second half of T2, defensive play becomes a priority. Block lots, approach enemies carefully, pay attention to how they move and attack. If one of your team-mates has an effective and safe way to take on a particular foe that you don't, don't be afraid to let him do the work while you go take on something else. Help if you can, but don't put yourself in unnecessary danger if you can help it.

Honestly, Arenas and Danger Rooms are something you probably want to avoid until you have better gear. They involve lots of enemies in a small space, often with obstacles, and they can potentially spawn enemies from the tier below. You could probably do the first 2 rooms of an Arena level if you're careful, but I wouldn't risk a full run through one without some experienced people to back you up. (Note: Experienced =/= Overgeared. There is a difference.)

Graveyards are another matter. You should easily be able to take one on by yourself. Take it slowly, kill everything, and when the red-phantom spawns don't go any further until it is dead. It'll keep coming back, but if you're watching for it so it doesn't take you by surprise you should be okay. Graveyards are actually a very good source of heat and crowns if you can clear them.

Now, if you're in a graveyard in a group, that's another matter. You get one red-phantom for each player, and if they all decide to mob one guy he's going to be in a heap of trouble. There are two ways to clear a GY in a group. Method #1 involves running like hell for the exit, and a whole heap of prayer. Chances are someone(s) will die, but as long as one person makes it to the elevator they'll be alive on the next floor.

Method #2 is basically the same as the solo method. Stick together, kill the phantoms when they appear, clear it slowly and methodically. Given the tendency of most parties to basically be a bunch of people running around cross-purposes, I'm sure you can see where this might start to break down. If you find yourself in a good group that's actually interested in coordination and cooperation though, it's quite rewarding. (also, add them to your friends list asap. or join their guild. whatever.)

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 01:36

Tipiak

You can probably already get

You can probably already get a nice experience in T1 arenas and danger rooms : lots of crowns/heat, get used to the "waves" system, the geography of those places... and fun ! :-)

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:39

Chisgule

I had the same gear when I

I had the same gear when I started T2, so I think you're fine in that regard. I would recommend joining a guild that matches your personality/playstyle and to run with a regular group. This will dramatically accelerate your learning.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 09:19

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

As a general rule, each

As a general rule, each half-tier is balanced around having equipment of a higher star rating than the previous.

TIER 1
STRATUM 1: Depth 1-3 (0-Star gear such as Proto Sword)
STRATUM 2: Depth 5-7 (1-Star gear such as Bolted Blade? I guess? Most people just skip it.)

TIER 2
STRATUM 3: Depth 9-12 (2-Star gear such as Calibur)
STRATUM 4: Depth 14-17 (3-Star gear such as Tempered Calibur)

TIER 3
STRATUM 5: Depth 19-22 (4-Star gear such as Ascended Calibur)
STRATUM 6: Depth 24-28 (5-Star gear such as Leviathan Blade)

Materials drop "one stratum ahead" of the matching equipment stratum. So in Stratum 3, you'll find the 3* materials you'll need to build the Tempered Calibur for Stratum 4.

Your equipment set is pretty good for slicing things apart quickly, definitely viable if you're confident in your ability to dodge Elemental and Shadow attacks. Plus the Royal Jelly Palace is primarily Piercing-based, and is one of the better farming grounds. (Still a challenging place in general though.)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:27

#10

Valkier

Legacy Username

Thanks again for everyone

Thanks again for everyone giving me advice and whatnot. I've actually gotten pretty good at Tier 2 now, though I have a hard time finding WHY you should do it. Perhaps I am farming the wrong places, or that my inability to kill the Jelly King is severely hindering my income from each run. I'm not really sure at this point, but I did recently read that I should be able to pull in quite a large amount of crowns from the two levels leading up to JK?

So I did get the angelic set and horned owl shield. I did all right with it, but the JK quickly put me back in my place twice now. I have no piercing resist on my armor however, so I decided that if my goal is to farm JK then I should change my tactics and take another route.

To that end I now have:

Ascended Calibur with slime bonus damage (UV from my first calibur. Not bought solely for this)
Dusker set
Twisted Targe

I'm leveling it all up to 10 now and am hoping the increased damage from the set as well as the piercing resistance helps me out, and possibly solo the JK since my groups so far have been quite... questionable. If this doesn't work either I have completely misread what every one of you awesome gents have been trying to tell me, or I'm just a bad player. I have a fairly easy time in T2 right up until I run in to the JK with either of my sets, however, so I'm guessing it's just a learning curve.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:01

#11

Captain-Teemo

Okay - JK runs are profitable

Okay - JK runs are profitable if you don't do jelly king. IMO these levels are easy to clear once you learn the patterns of the mobs (you only face a few) and what spawns where. Pay attention and reap the rewards. You'll want to clear jk though for jelly tokens, but don't worry about not being able to do him yet b/c it IS profitable to not kill him.

What you're looking for is a shadow element weapon to help with jk. I've heard the shadow brandish is good, it fights similar to the Calibur. You'll use this against slimes / jellies / and jk himself, then switch to your calibur to down any turrets / trees / butterflies.

For jelly king - how you fight him is important. You want to get right up in his face, no footing around and kiting... he heals too much for that. His pattern is pretty simple though. Every time he attacks he has a space of time you can do a combo back on him, so if you shield -> combo you should be good. Once he starts spinning around the room (this is good b/c it means he is dying) you need to get a bit quicker on him... After he spins he does 1 attack and then spins around the room again... When he spins around the room he is invulnerable so you have to get to him quick and unlock while you can, at the same time getting ready to defend and dodge when he spins out again.

If you want to add me in game - I can prolly help you. I am great at protecting ppl and getting them through levels. I can't promise to kill jk for you, but I am great at controlling the mobs with my ice bomb and can kite most rooms to death with my guns. My ign is Captain-Teemo (also from lol XD)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 20:45

#12

Aziraphaile

Legacy Username

Unless you need the actual

Unless you need the actual Boss Tokens, JK doesn't drop enough heat/crowns to justify the energy cost of activating his elevator. If all you're after is heat and crowns, complete the Palace Runaround, and head back to Haven. That said, the Sealed Sword and its upgrades are damned good swords, if you like the heavy blade type at all, so you'll probably want to farm him for tokens at some point. It just doesn't have to be now.

Shadow Damage weapons will help immensely in the Palace, although the JK himself doesn't really take much more damage from them than from normal damage types. Particularly in Phase 2, when he starts spinning around the room, I'd go back to the Calibur. You can potentially charge up the sword while he's spinning across the room. He's pretty much immune to knockback, so the Calibur charge attack will likely hit him 3 times when you release it, you'll have time for one or two more swings before you'll want to shield up and get the hell out before he starts spinning again.

What people don't mention quite as often is that Elemental weapons will also help quite a bit. Besides Jellies, there are also Silkwings, which heal and resist shadow damage, and constructs in the form of Lumbers and Gunpuppies that are weak to elemental. Shadow damage will help you take down the jellies faster, but honestly they're not that much of a threat. Elemental damage will help deal with some of the real threats in the palace, and serve you well elsewhere in the clockworks, probably more often than a shadow damage weapon would.

As for strategies:

Status vials help. Muchly. Keep him Poisoned if you can, or Curse is even better. Fire and Shock will also help by providing some extra damage, but Poison and Curse are the big ones. Try and save those two up, and some health pills, before you take him on.

As a general rule, you want to focus on the boss. The minions get in the way sometimes, but you'll have to learn how to maneuver around them and shield push them out of your way. Killing them is pointless, as they constantly respawn. Unless he's poisoned or cursed the JK heals constantly, so you need to maximise your damage output and time on target.

When you get to the second phase, remember that he always spins the same way every time, counter-clockwise. Once you get a feel for how he moves, you'll be able to position yourself to pick him up as he finishes the spin. As a bonus, his spin will also kill or knock away some of the jellies around him, leaving you a pretty good opening if you're ready to capitalise on it.

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Tier 2: Am I stupid or missing something?