Spiral Knights - What do I do with guns and bombs?

What do I do with guns and bombs?

18 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 04:05

Fazan

Legacy Username

I mean beyond the obvious "shoot" and "explode" things with. When I first learned that the game had guns, I was thrilled, thinking I'd be able to slash things with a sword, knock them away and finish them with a gun... But guns just seem to do very, very little damage, shoot very slowly, reload very often and generally not do a whole lot of enemy killing. Then I tried swapping that gun away for a bomb, thinking that since I could only use it charged-up, that it would do amazing amounts of damage and... It really doesn't. Even solo, it's taking me two, three, four bombs sometimes to down what I infer to be basic enemies.

So, basically, I've taken to simply focusing on just a single weapon - a sword that I got which has a chance to set things on fire - and though I try to use guns as much as I can, I ended up only using them to shoot ratchet switches and detonate exploding blocks. What am I missing? Is there some kind of weapon capable of auto fire or really big single-shot damage? Is there one that won't leave me so horribly vulnerable while I reload? And what about bombs? How can I make use of those when they seem to do about as much damage as a sword swing?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 05:20

Ninhursag

Legacy Username

well in short, the gun's only

well in short, the gun's only interest is the ability to kill from long range, you can snipe 1 troublesome mob for your party ( like the healers ) while with the sword you have to charge in or be patient lol
for the bomb, you get huge amount of damage only if you can hit many mobs at the same time, or you can blast them away to keep allies safe ( blast bomb ).
that's about all for the advantages of guns and bombs over the swords, but with 1 to 3 ennemies at the same time, usually you are still better off with a sword ( still have to know how to use it though :p )

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 05:23

aeolianmode

Legacy Username

There are several players who

There are several players who specialize in gunning and bombing that may be able to answer you better; I am a jack of all trades and my opinions will be as thus. I possess 5 guns, 4 bombs, and 10 swords (all 5 star) so I hope my opinions will have some credibility.

There is only one gun that is viable as an any situation weapon, and that is the blaster series. The 5* version (Valiance) does decent damage, provides good mobility and has knock back. The Autogun series will do as it's name suggests but you will be immobilized during the firing process. Big single shot guns are something along the Magnus and Alchemer series. A good DPS gun that combines high rate of fire and high mobility is the Antigua line; however this weapon is split damage and is not that useful in many situations.

However, most of the effectiveness stems from the damage type your weapon is, and the damage type the enemy is weak against. As most enemies you will encounter are elemental, I strongly suggest you start with either a Cryo or Voltech alchemer series. These balance mobility with decent elemental damage, as well as status effects (freeze and shock). Please be aware that, no matter what you choose, guns will always be inferior in damage output to swords. They are made for kiting and staying safe. Also note that at low levels all equipment will seem underpowered.

Bombs are a pain to use unless you are in specialized bombing gear that reduces charge time. By far the most useful and expectantly widely used bomb is the Haze series. These bombs release a cloud of status inducing mist. The most popular of the Haze are the Fiery and Freezing vaporizer lines, and they inflict status as their name suggests. Fire is excellent for AoE DPS, and Freeze is excellent for crowd control. Please note that, at a low level, bombs have a very small radius that drastically grows to a humongous radius as you progress in star levels. Please also be aware that Haze bombs do little damage and are primarily for support, as most bombs are.

There is no way to build a character to be ready for any situation; rather you must expand your arsenal to be prepared for any stratum. For example, I have a set of weapons to deal elemental/shadow/piercing/status and armor to defend against all those as well, and I swap them according to the gate I am running. Feel free to send me a tell (command /tell) in game if you have further questions. In game name is Aeolian.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 05:24

Gwenyvier

Guns are good for range, as

Guns are good for range, as such they do less damage then a sword (they'd be terribly overpowered if they did the same damage as a sword). They're mostly used by people that decide to be gunners, everybody else uses them for hitting switches, inflicting status effects (Alchemer lines), or using the Silversix/Argent Peacemaker in the Firestorm Citadel.

Bombs, again, give range, so you have to trade some DPS for it (this time in the form of having to charge it every time instead of outright less damage). They also hit a large area (not including Crystal Bomb lines)... or the 5* bombs do, 2* hits a much smaller area and Proto Bomb is a joke. A well placed bomb can hit 10+ enemies at once without risking you getting hit assuming you know how to kite. Or be able to peg Menders/Silkwings that are hiding in a group of enemies that a sword user would not be able to hit otherwise without taking damage.

I am not the person to answer your question on guns. I have one I use, an Argent Peacemaker, and I have it for the Citadel and because it has 6 shots. Bombs I rather like, I have a Bomber set and several high end bombs. My only complaint on bombs is that there's no Shadow or Elemental boom bomb. Shadow has Graviton (sucks for the most part), and Elemental has the Haze Bomb lines. Haze Bombs have fantastic utility, most notably the Shivermist Buster, but I really want to see a couple more bombs that do just outright damage.

~Gwen

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 05:59

Fazan

Legacy Username

Am I supposed to put a title in every post? :)

So the Haze Bomb is a joke. That might explain my experience.

I don't really have any decent gear at the moment, and without spending any real money, I'm not sure I'll have that any time soon. However, I AM looking at two-star items (my only one so far is a Jelly Armour set, thank God for costume slots as that thing is HIDEOUS) but I'll be looking for a two-star gun some time soon, possibly after acquiring a two-star sword or if I find a recipe I can make on the spot.

So, basically, when it comes to guns, I should treat those as a side arm, which is to say not something I'll be going in to do massive damage with, but rather something to supplement my sword. OK, I can deal with that, but I'll have to find something that sucks less than the confounded Punch Gun. One pitifully-weak single shot with recoil and reload. No, thank you :)

As for bombs, if they come with larger radii, I those might be fun to use, but I'd have to justify buying the "Starter Pack" for that, as I hear it comes with an additional weapon slot. What DOES that one contain, anyway, and can I get it after the fact, is it a limited-time only, etc. etc.? I'm still not sure what I think about bombs, but they may be worth trying out if I can snag a two-star one.

So, I suppose I should trawl the Wiki and find a gun that shoots like I want it to shoot? Should I pick a damage type different from my sword in case I find resistant enemies?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 06:17

Gwenyvier

Nooooo, the Haze bomb series

Nooooo, the Haze bomb series is very good at what it does... its support. It's not intended to do a bunch of damage. The Proto Bomb is a joke, and turns a lot of people off of bombs (including myself originally) due to its suckage.

~Gwen

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 06:43

Fazan

Legacy Username

Yeah, I misspoke, my bad :)

Yeah, I misspoke, my bad :) The Proto Bomb, yes, it's the one I bought just to try bombs out and it... Wasn't very good, suffice it to say.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 11:48

Aziraphaile

Legacy Username

Yes, it's a good idea to

Yes, it's a good idea to carry multiple damage types. At the very least though, you'll generally want to have at least one "Normal' damage weapon to cover all the bases.

Guns are pretty weak, overall. And this is coming from a pretty dedicated gunner. I can recommend the Alchemer lines quite highly though, even though they only have a 2 shot clip. At higher levels the ricochet gives you the ability to hit many targets at once, and you can quite happily kite around a small ball of 5-7 mobs at a time.

Bombs are, by comparison, pretty damn awesome. The Haze lines basically exist for status-infliction. Freeze is nice for keeping a crowd of enemies from chasing down other players, and the Fire series deals some very nice damage over time. The initial explosion damage on them is lacking though. For that, you have to get yourself a Blast Bomb and it's derivatives. The Spine Cone isn't bad either, although it doesn't have any real knockback like the Blast series, it deals pure piercing damage which makes it a good choice for Beast and Fiend strata, or other places those enemy types show up.

Something to note regarding blast radii on bombs, particularly the Haze derivatives, is that while there isn't much difference between the 2*, 3* and 4* bombs, the 5* versions can have a truly monstrous range.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:12

Fazan

Legacy Username

I'll definitely see about

I'll definitely see about taking some bombs, but not before I have more slots to do it, which probably won't happen unless I decide to go for the starter pack. And if I do, I'll definitely go for explosion damage. I'm the sort of player who likes big swords, large guns and giant explosions. Status effects, kiting, tactics... They just take the fun out of the fight :)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:13

Noodleface

Legacy Username

If you like big weapons...

If you like big weapons, I just wanted to point you to a couple of awesome ones that as a new player I had no idea existed.

Troika line (2*-4* sword) - http://youtu.be/zuq9HJOkMMw
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Troika

Avenger (since the Troika line stops at 4*, the Avenger/Divine Avenger/faust/gran faust are the continuation of the slow, high damaging swords) - http://youtu.be/sAGNkSntj3A
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Sealed_Sword (the starting sword for the avenger/faust)

Nitronome (blast bomb 5* upgrade - it's the big blue explosion, the video also shows the fire and poison versions of the haze bomb) - http://youtu.be/kikiW803PZE
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Nitronome

Magnus (3* gun, slow but powerful against fiends and beasts, has a chance to stun the enemy on impact, and just feels awesome to shoot) - http://youtu.be/PKyeEMZxdmk
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Magnus

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:34

#10

Fazan

Legacy Username

I think I found my gun of

I think I found my gun of choice, at least for the moment - the Blaster two-star handgun that looks like an upgrade of the Proto Gun. I got it from the Spiral Knighs quartermaster. It looks like a big conventional handgun and it fires balls of blue energy. Could I ask for anything more?

I also have my eyes on the Autogun series of handguns, but I haven't been able to find a recipe for one.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:45

#11

MeSako

Legacy Username

The Autogun fires a lot of

The Autogun fires a lot of bullets in one direction (no turning while fireing, and you can not move while fireing.. Which makes you a sitting duck..
But as a supporting gunner in a party that is fine, in solo, no thanx...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:33

#12

Squishat

Legacy Username

just a note about a bomb

You should try taking the Snarbolax bomb with you.

Even at 2/ 3 stars it does really good damage to wolvers/chromas. Good for Snarbo and other leaf-y levels as well.

Mine is currently at 4*, level 5 and does 200 damage/ wolver in T3. Amazing stuff :P

So in response to the bomb that just does plain damage, this one blows me away more than even my Nitronome xD Still trying to get used to the fact that it doesn't have knockback.

Also a note on Nitronome, it has knockback so is better for soloing so as not to irritate others.

Is your ign Fazan as well? I have a spare Blast Bomb I could send your way, so you can test out the Blast Bomb line :D

I rather consider the Blast Bomb to be the "lazy bomb" with adequate CTR (charge time reduction) you can sit in the same spot and watch them fly over and over without having to move at all. Now that is fun xD

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 05:05

#13

Fazan

Legacy Username

Ah, the magic of having to

Ah, the magic of having to preview my posts before posting them and how I forget to do so, leading to me writing posts for nothing :)

No, "Fazan" is an account I had to make specifically for the forums because I couldn't use my Steam account details like I can in the actual game. My one solitary in-game character is called Sphyra. She should be easy to tell - she's the one running T2 dungeons while using the looks of her starting armour :)

The reason I brought up the Autogun series is because I've seen it in action, and it's amazingly cool. The volley fire looks very impressive, and the weapon's actual appearance reminds me of my Nerf Maverick Rev-6 pistol (coolest gun design ever! :)). However, having seen its operating principle described, I don't think I'll be using it. I use my handgun for one of three purposes:

1. Kite things with, be they large tree men who hit hard or laser beam eye shooting robots from across chasms where they can't shoot me, or just shooting at enemies I knocked into spikes and such. For this, I need both mobility and fast action. Not good with a gun that both shoots slowly and roots me for the duration.

2. Pick off gunpuppies without getting overwhelmed. For this, I need both precision so as to actually hit the gunpuppy I'm aiming for and focus fire on it, as well as avoid its incoming fire. Again, a weapon that roots me as it shoots slowly is not a good choice for this, and the scatter fire is further bad for shooting at single enemies.

3. Detonate exploding barrels. I've almost turned the act of shield-pushing enemies into exploding barrels and then exploding them into an art form, and for this I need a quick-reacting, accurate gun. I don't think the Autogun is good for that.

As it turns out, I'll be walking around clad in Spiral standard issue gear - Cobalt set, Calibur sword, Blaster pistol. They look cool and they function well :) Don't know what to do about bombs, though. I'll worry about them when I get slots for the things.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 09:41

#14

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Sounds like you want your gun

Sounds like you want your gun for fighting Constructs. The Alchemer series does that exceptionally well, with bonus damage to Constructs. You can use the Cryotech Alchemer to freeze their feet to the floor (which also stops a Gun Puppy from rotating!), the Firotech for excellent sustained damage, or the Voltech for an in-between stalling and damaging measuer (periodic damage plus flinch effect). The drawbacks are its unimpressive two shot clip (meaning you're stuck single-shotting if you want to shield afterwards), and the 2* versions have slow-moving bullets. (Thankfully, the bullets move faster on 3* and up.)

Elemental damage is ineffective against Beasts and Gremlins. But that's okay since Beasts and Gremlins automatically dodge incoming gunfire anyway.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:30

#15

Kathoric

Legacy Username

@Fazan - For the most part, I

@Fazan - For the most part, I agree with your choice of the Blaster series. It and its upgrades are good general-purpose guns at each level. Not necessarily the *best* weapon for any particular situation, but a good choice in almost any situation.

That said, a weapon that immobilizes you is still viable, provided you use your shield effectively. Shoot-n-Shield is a very useful tactic against single ranged enemies like Gun Puppies, provided your shield can take enough hits that the enemy dies before your shield breaks. Since shielding is a "sequence breaker", if you don't fire a full clip before shielding, you'll never have to waste time on the reloading animation (with the Blaster, fire two rounds, shield, two rounds, shield, etc, and you'll never have to reload...).

Off-topic note: Consider switching from the Cobalt helm/armor to the Wolver series equivalents. They provide basically the same defense, but gives you extra sword damage as well. Recipes aren't as easy to obtain, but you can find premade Wolver items in the AH at very reasonable prices (players tend to "ragecraft" lots of these trying to get good UV's, and end up selling the non-UV versions at less than it costs to make them).

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 02:24

#16

Fazan

Legacy Username

Quick question that may be a

Quick question that may be a bit off-topic: What changes on weapon appearance as they go up in stars? I upgraded my Blaster to a Super Blaster the other day, and it only got a lighter, more metallic finish to it. I think it shoots larger energy balls, though, I'm not sure. Same with the Calibur - lighter finish on the sword, and maybe an "visible sharpness" sparkle here and there. Will they change further with four-star?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 03:44

#17

Milkman

Yes they change more

Yes they change more drastically as you upgrade them to 4/5*. If you would like to preview the weapons/armour i suggest you take a look at the spiral knights wiki.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 05:50

#18

Fazan

Legacy Username

The pictures on the Wiki

The pictures on the Wiki aren't very good, but just knowing they change is enough for me. Now I just need to figure out which type of Calibur, Blaster and Blast Bomb I want :)

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What do I do with guns and bombs?