I like to be the big guy defending the team and dealing pretty good damage,
The main question is what Sword, Shield, Helmet, Armor, and Gun should I use?
Best Build for Tanking?
Mon, 03/20/2017 - 07:25
Tue, 03/21/2017 - 07:57
#2
agree
We've had many threads like this over the years. You can find them by searching Google (not the forum's built-in search) for something like "tank site:forums.spiralknights.com" (without the quotation marks).
As Demonicsothe said, tanking is not a viable strategy in this game. The reason is that even the most defensive armor blocks only slightly more damage than the least defensive armor. This game's rules are heavily tilted toward dodging, not tanking.
The closest we get to tanking is a support role that protects the party while still dodging. A supporter can use heavy swords (such as the Sealed and Troika lines) to knock back enemies. A supporter can use Blast-line bombs to knock back or haze-style bombs to spread status. A supporter can use Pulsar-line guns to knock back or various guns to spread status.
Wed, 03/22/2017 - 23:05
#3
I see what you're talking about
As I've gone through some older threads it seems like the game doesn't favor the heavy defense strategy.
Kinda killed my spirit, but I'll move on.
I'll try and make due with what I get, and use Divine Avenger/Troika *5 variants, The Ancient Armor Set, and the Iron Slug? (Or some piercing/shadow guns)
Types of Shields are relative so I'll look more into that.
I'm not a huge fan of bombs as I usually forget to even use them, I'm more of a heavy sword-weilding gunner (and am gaining an interest in shield-bashing)
I'm kinda dissapointed defensive play doesn't get much love in this game, though considering it's a dungeon-styled beat-em-up, with healthpacks and health-extentions, I guess it's alright.
So far I'm looking forward to what you think, and what matches my playstyle.
Wed, 03/22/2017 - 23:18
#4
Also
By any chance is any of the Spiral Plate Mail family viable? 'Cause I love the way it looks
Thu, 03/23/2017 - 02:09
#5
uh
I mean, you could equip it as a costume, but that's a very expensive costume.
But no.
Dodge don't tank.
There's a reason why people are OK with Lumbers but despise Devilites with all of their utmost rage.
Thu, 03/23/2017 - 04:26
#6
response
The heavy swords are not a bad idea. The Magnus-style guns are a great idea. Alchemers and Autogun-style guns would also work. Maybe also Pulsar-style guns, if you're good at using them. (Most players aren't.)
I wouldn't bother with Ancient Plate armor. It's hard to get and not great as an armor. Maybe you'd like to read my armor guide.
If you want a shield that tanks, then get Grey Owlite Shield and Dread Skelly Shield. Use the former in fire and shock levels, and the latter in poison and freeze levels. In shields, native status resistance is more important than damage protection. (But most players consider offense even more important, so also consider Barbarous Thorn Shield and Swiftstrike Buckler.)
Ze-Epik's comment about lumbers and devilites is exactly right.
Finally, many novice players ignore bombs, but many experienced players use them heavily. For example, in a recent thread I selected Dark Briar Barrage as the one weapon that every knight should have. So you should look at them more seriously, especially for your tank idea.
Thu, 03/23/2017 - 07:04
#7
Noted
Thanks for the insight,
I'll do my own looking around to match my playstyle.
And I'll learn to get used to bombs in the future.
Thu, 03/23/2017 - 07:51
#8
Of course, this is all based
Of course, this is all based on how good a loadout is. You can still build the heavily defensive sets and do decent in them. The side effect would be that you do less damage than most anyone else. But it's your knight, and your playstyle.
If you plan on getting two heavy swords, grab the gran faust along with the divine avenger to cover your damage types. Bopp has a guide on damage types. An iron slug is still good for a sidearm.
The general guide for choosing shield applies well though, for both the defensive playstyle and the hyper offensive one.
Sat, 03/25/2017 - 07:22
#9
if u really want to tank
use the ancient plate shield, ancient plate helm and ancient plate mail and heart pendants. and try to use either fast or slow swords not medium. slow is probably the best. if u are in lockdown do it with defender and u will be undefeatable.
Sat, 03/25/2017 - 12:06
#10
will die
if u really want to tank, use the ancient plate shield, ancient plate helm and ancient plate mail and heart pendants.
Equip this in a Tier-3 Elite level filled with fiends, try to tank the damage, and watch your knight die. The armor doesn't stop any of the shadow damage, so you get chewed up. The same goes for most other monsters --- any monster with lots of non-normal damage.
A better idea is to choose defensive armor specifically for the level. But even that won't work, because defensive armor protects you only slightly more than offensive armor. Your fancy armor keeps you alive for 4 or 5 hits, instead of the usual 3.
A better idea is to dodge.
Sun, 03/26/2017 - 08:03
#11
Here's the closest I can come
Here's the closest I can come up with that would actually be useful.
Battle Sprite: Drakon for damage, or Seraphynx for invincibility, defensive orbs and hearts.
Perk: Healthy Boost.
Helm: Any offensive set, such as Wolver lines, gunner armor, Bombastic, or Chaos or Black Kat with a lot of status UVs.
Armor: Same as Helm.
Shield: Any Tortodrone shield, Ancient Plate, or Volcanic Plate. Possibly Omega Shell, never used it personally.
Swords: Sudaruska, Triglav, Divine Avenger, or Gran Faust.
Guns: Iron Slug, Callahan, Winter Grave, or any Pulsar or Tortofist.
Bombs: Nitronome, Big Angry Bomb, or Irontech Destroyer.
Trinkets: 2 Penta-Heart Pendants/True Love Lockets. Possibly damage boosters as well.
Costume: Any Plate armor.
Sun, 03/26/2017 - 06:37
#12
@Bopp
if u can doge a little and use that tank with the pendants you could do well but if u try that with cat cowls and stuff then you can move faster than normal but still be tanking. I use a better one of jus donging. not that hard and you still can take into battle like a wolver line. use maskeraith cloak to doge really well...
Sun, 03/26/2017 - 10:33
#13
that is the point
Yes, you can use that loadout if you dodge. You can use just about any loadout, if you're good at dodging.
The point is that you survive by dodging --- not by having your armor block all of the damage, which is tanking.
Mon, 03/27/2017 - 02:20
#14
*so happy*
tfw Bopp compliments your comment
so gud
Fri, 03/31/2017 - 06:00
#15
Best Build for Tanking?
I too am a defensive player, my playstyle actually helps others out while not taking too much damage. I like to use the kiting and charging method of playing, usually with fast weapons like acheron etc. , yes slow weapons like triglav do more dmg, but trust me weapons like shivermist buster and combustor/acheron/glacius etc. all work wonders.
My usual gear is 5* Azure Guardian Armour and Helm with Combustor and either piercing gun like blitz needle/guilded griffen or shadow like a dark chaingun/winter grave (yes it's slow but it freezes enemies while dealing shadow dmg, only exception for me) and seraphnx lvl 95 with health buff. I can take on pretty much everything no problems, and because I have a lot of weapons can switch out with ease to suit a particular level, my build is not the best but it is the way I play that means I was able to take on Ice Queen in Shadow Lair using only one spark to revive, I mean that's pretty good for a shadow lair and my armour set.
Mon, 04/03/2017 - 06:15
#16
@Cdst
@Cdst
Acheron does the most raw damage per hit out of any sword in the game, even beating sudaruska.
Sat, 04/29/2017 - 23:27
#17
"Erecting a Handgun Dispenser."
As many already said, Spiral Knights is a very offensive-focused game in part thanks to a deceptively lackluster defense system, which makes any defensive-focused set not worth it.
...But, if you really must get a set that focuses on surviving instead of boosting your weapons' performances, then you must follow this Holy Rule as it will guide you in your choice of defensive equipment: "Status Resistance > Health Points > Type Defense"
Status Resistance matters over everything else as the status ailments in this game are especially crippling and can make your fights quickly spiral out of control. Furthermore, attacks that have a chance to induce status ailments can actually make a far heavier dent on your shield than otherwise, as the status ailment itself counts as an additional hit for your shield. Finally, you can achieve some Status Immunity thresholds if given enough resistance stacks, and all shields with status "resistances" on their tooltip are actually designed to be immune to said status ailments.
Health Points come next because they're the actual bulk of you and your shield's defense, especially when there are no predominant status ailments to worry about. That said, the overall base HP is practically universal to everything minus one armor set and one shield in particular, and even those exceptions aren't too extreme either, so most of your base HP-modifying will come from HP Trinkets.
Finally, Type Defense comes dead last on this because it takes a tremendous amount of it in order to get some actual meaningful leeway, and even then you'll at best be saving about 2 pips of HP per hit. Normal Defense is technically the best since most monsters in T3 will still do half of their damage in Normal damage, but it's not worth putting a considerable effort into thinking about it, much less stacking it.
With that in mind, if I had to pick the best set that'd make you the toughest nut to crack, then something like Ancient Plate+Divine set would be the one, as not only would it give you +3 HP on top of the base +10 HP at Lvl 5, but also +4 Res to Fire, Shock, Stun and Curse, which is huge if we take the Holy Rule into account.
As for Shields, you should also take what I call "The Holy Trinity", which is comprised of the Grey Owlite Shield, Dread Skelly Shield and Omega Shell.
The Grey Owlite and Dread Skelly Shields combined help you deny about 95% of all status ailments in the game with their combined Fire, Shock, Poison and Freeze Immunities, while the Omega Shell, the only shield with the highest shield HP in the game, complements these two by being the better shield in areas with no predominant status ailment.
Now, if you were looking for some actual "Take damage for teammates" type of Tanking, then tough luck, as such a thing is not available outside of Lockdown's exclusive Guardian Shield, so you're gonna have to go with the next best thing in PvE: supporting your teammates, usually with Bombs.
Fortunately for you, Bombs are exclusively Charge-centric, which means that the Ancient Plate's ASD is completely negligible for a Pure Bomber (the MSD Low on it can hurt it though, maybe, probably). Unfortunately for you, this is all the advice I can give you as I'm no expert on Bomber, so you're gonna have to ask someone more knowledgeable about that when it comes to choosing your "weapons".
Tue, 05/23/2017 - 04:27
#18
You can be a bulky tank if
You can be a bulky tank if you want. The right shield will soak up a lot of hits that can let you get out of nasty situations. Then with the right armor underneath, you'll be able to take a blow when you need to. It's true that you will never be able to just stand around soaking up hits with your armor, but defense is not useless. Being able to take 5+ hits instead of losing over 1/3 of your HP per hit is a big difference. Then consider that with the appropriate armor, you will be much less affected by status inflicted as well. This in turn means you'll be able to avoid further damage more easily and that you will be able to kill threats faster, resulting in less damage taken overall. Any hearts and health pills you pick up hold so much more value with a good defensive armor.
Tbh, play whatever you want to play, but try out different armor and weapon lines. Don't just use "chaos+ssb for everything" like some people on the forums used to comment all the time, because those same people would be complaining that a new mission was "BS difficulty" when it first came out XD
Tue, 05/23/2017 - 06:49
#19
tanking status
Zincamania-Forum makes a good point: You can tank the status content of enemy attacks. A 5-star shield with inherent status protection (not a UV) is immune to that status. And if you equip enough armor, armor UVs, trinkets, and perks, you can push your armor over the +9.5 (or so?) needed to achieve immunity to (minor?) status.
But the part about tanking damage is not convincing. We're talking about a "tank" surviving 5 hits while an offensive knight survives 3. It's just not a big enough difference to enable a genuinely different playing style.
I also like her/his point about Chaos + Swiftstrike Buckler. Some players do optimize for offense, and adopt a particular play style around it, and then find themselves incapable of dealing with levels that require more defensive play. Partially it's the fault of forumers like me. When we advise new players to go for offense, we are not saying that it will always work in all situations. It works best in most situations --- especially for players who have mastered the AI --- but not for everyone in the harder content (Heart of Ice, March of the Tortodrones, Grinchlin Assault, etc.).
Mon, 05/29/2017 - 11:50
#20
bopp
You are right that it will not be a genuinely different playstyle, and reading the OP again I see he was indeed asking for a real 'tank' playstyle and I agree that armor is not going to cut it. I still think that is sort of possible, albeit not through 'heavy' armor, but through shields. My point is that when you are on a group mission, the standard squishy loadout with a BTS or SSB can only really focus on keeping yourself alive (and it's good enough for that). If you equip a strong shield, you can soak up hits for your allies who find themselves caught out of position, by putting yourself in that bad position with them. And while the right shield can be really powerful, it might still break by the time you can save your teammate from immediate threats. When that happens, it doesn't hurt to have the right armor that turns that 33% blow into a 18% one (I made the numbers up, I haven't played in a while) and that prevents 10 seconds of shock/poison/fire etc on yourself. For armor status defense, in my opinion it's not as much about immunity as it is about simply having something better than -4 to status (chaos). Most of the status in missions will be strong, whisps do moderate status which needs the +9(.5?) resistance. Just getting a decent +4-7 or so is already a nice step up from 0 or status penalties (but obviously in certain missions it's wise to really specialise to get the appropriate immunities).
For example my skolver set has piercing and shock max UVs, which means in a shock or freeze beast/slime level, I can afford playing a little more risky. Whether it is to save a teammate in trouble (I can use dash to get to them, then use my shield to bump enemies away a bit/soak up some damage) or just to deal a killing blow on an elite enemy (like a giant lichen colony or so), because that 1 hit will only take less than a fifth of my HP. I'm primarily avoiding damage, but taking a hit isn't a disaster as your health pills/heart drops will be enough to keep your health up. But if I were to use chaos armor, health pills and hearts would not be enough to heal off the occasional hit, so I'd have to focus entirely on avoiding any hits to myself instead. I'd also run the risk of getting frozen/shocked and taking an additional hit.
But I do need to add, when using a brandish, the chaos sets CTR can act as a way to stay safe and protect your teammates with the knockback+damage. I just find other weapons more fun to use, and with those I find a balance between defense and offense to be better than the all out offense approach with chaos set.
Tanking isn't particularly viable. There's no method of taking hits for your team, and taking hits becomes a worse idea as you go further down. Partly because things hits hard, and partly because there's no good armor that helps you take damage better. The absolute best way for you to defend your team is to kill everything that threatens them. Or constantly shieldbumping everything. But that gets annoying.
If you would still prefer to stay in a support role without doing big damage, a support-esque bomber is good. You'll want ctr, either from sprite, armor, or uvs. Volcanic demo set is a good, defensive set. You get fire resist and vh ctr, which bumps all level 10 bombs to max ctr. Mad bomber is also a choice, albeit with negative status resists in exchange for vh damage for bombs. But if you want to play with mad bomber, you might as well get the chaos set. You tack on negative curse resists in exchange for vh ctr/damage for all weapons.
For support bombing, you'll want an assortment of electron vortex, voltaic tempest, venom veiler, stagger storm, and shivermist buster. Not necessarily in that order for your first bombs, but if you have all of it, that's how I would rank them. The vortex allows you to group mobs so your team can dump on them; the others are mist bombs that apply status, weakening the monsters to make them easier to deal with.
Having a gun is always good. Polaris is nice, since bombers don't have many long range methods for dealing with turrets. Swords are not a huge deal, but any of the heavy 2 swing swords can serve as a personal defence weapon. They apply a good amount of knockback to give yourself some breathing room. The sealed sword lines and the troika lines will give you those swords. Otherwise, you can go with the brandish weapons, being much more mobile in exchange for tighter swings and less immediate knockback.
Swiftstrike buckler helps bombing, but it's hardly necessary. Make a shield for each of the damage types, preferably with relevant status resists. Grey owlite is popular for a good reason. Skelly shield is good for a shadow shield, giving poison and freeze resists. The favored piercing shield is barbarous thorn shield, because it grants med sword damage. I suppose savage tortoise is an alternative? But you'll need the ancient shell material.