Spiral Knights - Catalizer line Rework

Catalizer line Rework

4 replies [Last post]

Sun, 09/10/2017 - 17:07

Deurus

(Sorry, bad english)

Hi Knights!
With the gunner update, change the way Catalizer-Line work, passing from a gun with slow shots but with high damage become in a gun that the bullets tag to the opponent and with a charged shot explode, but this turned it into a weapon that generally does no direct damage.

Why should they be changed?

Now the weapon is totally useless in pvp and in pve only "works" with slow enemies (lumbers) or stationary (turrets), so in most cases it is better to use any other pistol, because do it better the function of causing damage at a distance until to approach the enemy.

How could it be changed?

Unstable Energy Shots:

Basic atacks: bullets tag to the enemy and after 4 seconds explode.
Charge atack: shots a bigger orb that tag and after 3 seconds detonate with great knock*back.
(Note: Needed be reduced the current charge speed).

Please let me know your thoughts with +1 or -1

Sun, 09/10/2017 - 20:24

Zero-Chill

-1

I imagine this to be VERY messy... after you tag a bullet or two the monster will just keep bouncing around the map and you won't even be able to aim another bullet at it so that's a no no from me.

A better solution is to make the charge directly detonate the tagged orbs without firing (like a button) also needs a slight damage increase... now this will be more viable in PvE and SUPER fun in LD, in LD you can just keep spamming normal shots and wait till someone steps in them then prepare a charge and wait till they are near a teammate and BOOM! and for PvE this will make it much easier to kill fast enemies as you don't actually have to hit with a charged bullet to detonate the orbs.

Tue, 09/12/2017 - 06:28

Triplescrew

Its projectiles just need to

Its projectiles just need to be much faster. Especially detonating one....It also should pierce through enemies without any pushback (in case stacked enemy is obstructed by others).

And i wish explosion hit registry were better. It feels like half of stacked orbs miss their explosion because of pushback. When i stacked like 20 orbs on a single enemy, and only 3 of them dealed damage....Meh

Tue, 09/12/2017 - 14:07

Nigel-Thornberries

Just a weird / chaotic idea

Perhaps the normal shots can stay as is, orbiting around the target, but the charged shot is changed a little bit to "home" in (It doesn't completely home in, just curves a little bit to try and compensate the missed shot) and "latch" onto the target; until it latches on to a monster, it won't detonate any normal orbs, but once it latches on, the orbs begin detonating sequentially, pushing the enemy haphazardly- the charged orb will remain on the target until all normal orbs have detonated, and if the enemy latched with a charged orb is pushed into another enemy surrounded by normal orbs, the charged orb latches onto the new enemy as well, detonating the orbs with them sequentially. Can't let that extra stacking effort go to waste!
• Charged orbs stack as well- if you hit an enemy already afflicted with one charge orb, another one will make other normal orbs detonate on its own timer until all the orbs have detonated, making it faster to deal damage.

As for pushing enemies around, I don't know, maybe switch the knockback into grounded damage? The orbs could be placed a little higher above the enemy, detonating 2 or 4 orbs across each other to counteract each other's blast, that way it "feels" like the enemy is being blasted into the ground a little bit.
Or add a Freeze Catalyzer, that'd be even more fun; you could have two mechanically similar guns that can offer different playing styles!

It could make for some chaotic fun and combos, like:

• Tagging multiple monsters and detonating one into another, and then another, and then another- it could be great for crowded enemies that are practically stumbling over each other, like mini monster hordes
• Tagging people in LD, making it a crowd control device, or to force people to change tactics
- A tagged person is forced to avoid the charged orbs, as they attract them- orbs don't home in- making the orb attempt at flying closer; if a charged orb were shot off to the side of the target, it wouldn't be able to curve straight in and latch on unless the target moved back or right into the orb
- A tagged person could take the charged orb and get blown about, potentially getting pushed into other teammates, damaging them in the process.

It's a messy solution that puts a lot of reliability and safety a little out of your control, but hey! It could be from removing those safety overrides, right?
But my main concern's still the detonation damage- stacking into what would've been two layers of orbs pre-gunner update, the damage either doesn't cut it for a "big bang," or it might be what Triple said- or I could be wrong, since I haven't played in a while...
Either way, the normal orb shot damage generally makes or breaks the weapon (in my opinion) at the moment. The speed of the normal shots are fine if you can lead the shots (most enemies), but as it is last I checked, Vog, the damage isn't too spectacular.

Edit: aahhh dangit it's a bit too similar to OP's suggestion I think
Edit 2: Another suggestion:

• Normal shots orbit like usual- but instead of having a trigger button solely for detonating normal orbs, have the charge attack be a guider! Once you release a charged orb, further actions to charge will instead make you hold your Catalyzer outward (maybe with a sort of laser sight?), acting as a guider to direct your charged orb into tagged enemies. Alternatively, you must hold down the attack button to keep the orb "charged" as you guide it, and once let go, will cause the orb to dissipate. This allows you to stop the orb from going on and on until it hits a wall, or until it naturally dissipates.
The charged orb will keep moving forward- moving your guider will not make the orb move immediately, instead, it drags behind some, starting slowly, "jumping," then slowly ending onto your guiding point- and upon enemy contact, attracts all normal orbs into the center of the enemy before detonating (to ensure none of the orbs don't hit from knockback)- as for whether it'll pierce or not... *shrug*

Wed, 09/13/2017 - 00:33

Fangel

ehh

My favorite version of the catalyzer was the first pass on the testing server.

Regular shots tagged enemies, but dealt no damage (rather than the current 1 damage). The charge bullet dealt massive damage, like it currently does. The big kicker was that all sources of damage set off the tags. It was one of the laggiest and most beautiful things I've ever seen. I set up so many tags on enemies in shadow lair firestorm citadel's second depth, then shield bashed into the crowd. My game just... Stopped for about 3 seconds, and when it came to all the zombies were either dead or flung across the room. This is because the tagged explosions set off all other tags, creating a huge chain reaction of explosive goodness.

The only downside to this system was that catalyzer bullets would not break blocks or minerals on the regular shots because they dealt no damage. I truly do believe this was one of the only reasons the weapon was changed to how it is now, and I still believe the original pass was the better version because it was so gosh darned fun to use.

This sort of method makes the tags always do their job - you hit an enemy with a tag or two, and then if a sword user runs in and slaps the enemy your tags still go off. This is a contained method, meaning if you're setting up tags, the swordie may eventually learn that slapping your target pushes the enemy away from them, so they'll just let you do your thing. It was a huge win for everyone.

But I will say that this does sort of take the whole catalyzer mechanic out of its own system, allowing all sources of damage to set off the tags. I would say I would rather have it stay as it currently is, but perhaps have tags set off other tags. This way, you can still set up a hilariously large amount of tags on several enemies, and you just have to fire one detonation shot into that crowd to make them all go boom.

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Catalizer line Rework