My opinion on Crafting and Energy
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 17:25
Stop right there you unfriendly player! I shall not let you throw rocks at me before you hear what I have to say.
But first, an introduction.
My name is Riem, and I'm a new player.
-(Hello Riem!)
I started playing upon the release of this fascinating game on steam and been playing like an addict since. I bought, bargained, crafted my gear and managed to self sustain my Crystal Energy off Tier 1 and Tier 2 runs, thanks to the low prices. I currently have no problem with having to spend a part of my loot to be able to keep playing. I usually have enough left to make plans for my next piece of gear.
However, I have a problem with the way crafting work currently. Actually, I have a problem with Mid-tier Grade gear (1 and 3 stars). The difference between 0-2 and 2-4 stars gear is huge, but the difference between 0-1 and 2-3 is so low it isn't even funny. You get a very little improvement for more than 4 times the original cost. Worth it? I think not. Yet, players are still forced to go through crafting 3* to get to 4* which again cost an arm and a half. I would really like if 1* and 3* grade gear would be rebalanced to fit between the two adjacent grades instead of been a (very) small improvement to the lower grade.
Essentially, I feel like I'm wasting time (and crowns) getting my gear to 3* which gives me little improvement for how much it cost and how long it takes me to farm for it. (Not without saying finding the damn recipes is a pain too)
Community response? *Hides under a rock*
[Edit] Removed the part that made people mad since it wasn't needed.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 17:57
#2
3* gear is about 18-25k
3* gear is about 18-25k crowns in AH. That is way higher than what it would take me to craft it. Its either farm for the recipe, or farm for the cash to buy it. It'd be less expensive to craft it.
But that isn't the point, the point is that the bonus for getting an item to 3* is way too low for what it cost to get it there, compared to 4* gear.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 17:58
#3
Must. Resist. Urge. to be.
Must. Resist. Urge. to be. snooty.
No, I fail. Get in line newbie. You've been playing, what, four days, and you're complaining that something is too hard? You say that 3* gear doesn't keep you alive in tier 2? The first time I soloed the Jelly King I was wearing 2* armor with a 3* sword. Armor can only help keep you alive so long if you allow yourself to get hit all the time. You gotta learn to shield, dodge, play smart, and then you'll stay alive. 'Cause without knowing how to play, you'd still die in tier 2 with 5* armor.
And I get that you're complaining that 3* isn't worth it and you want to skip right to 4*, but that's not how things work around here. Just be glad there's no XP system for the character that restricts what armor you can wear. Ever thought of counting your blessings? I just got most of my equpiment lines up to 3*, and trust me: you see the effect of it when you're wearing all 3* stuff. It makes an observable difference.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 18:03
#4
"No, I fail. Get in line
"No, I fail. Get in line newbie. You've been playing, what, four days, and you're complaining that something is too hard? You say that 3* gear doesn't keep you alive in tier 2? The first time I soloed the Jelly King I was wearing 2* armor with a 3* sword. Armor can only help keep you alive so long if you allow yourself to get hit all the time. You gotta learn to shield, dodge, play smart, and then you'll stay alive. 'Cause without knowing how to play, you'd still die in tier 2 with 5* armor."
Way to completely miss the point Mr. Elitist.
Edited the first post to avoid stupid rants like this one.
I'm talking about the difference in stats between 2* and 3* being ridiculously low and the cost to do the upgrade being more than 4 times the original investment.
THIS is what the whole thread is about.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 18:07
#5
Oh look another person
Oh look another person complaining about energy and crafting..
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 18:09
#6
Hmn...
I tend to agree that the 4* gear is the largest jump in gear strength and it's an odd place for a high step. Maybe it's just the scaling effects, 4* gear is only slightly handicapped in T2 which is where most of us play with 4* gear for the first time (few people craft a full 4* set while sitting at Emberlight and bring it straight into T3 after all. I'd say 'nobody' but someone will pop up to say they did it :))
The whole game though tends to feel oriented towards building a first 5* set and then supplemental 5* equipment, at least to me, and the increased crafting costs were done quickly and to slow people's progress, without any particular thought about how much power each star level has compared to the next, so, eh.
Anyway, have to disagree with TrapCardFool: It will -not- be a shortcut to buy into 5* gear with earned crowns. With bought crowns, yes, not with earned crowns, because the cost to unbind, we have been told, will be similar to the cost of the entire crafting path up to the unbound item. This means a 5* item will have a base cost roughly twice its crafting cost, plus profit which will be substantial because of the heating time required to build it. With a high base cost and a heat delay, the market can't be flooded the way it can with 1-3* items so there will be a substantial premium on buying your way into the end game.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 18:25
#7
Senshi, point taken but both
Senshi, point taken but both our prognostics are still up in the air until the patch actually hits.
What I do know is, unless the unbind fee is mind-shatteringly ridiculous, there will be a huge bump in the supply of 5* items people replaced with their shiny UV'd ones and/or they realized they didn't need. I know I have a bunch. With the current price for energy, I've managed to make almost 15k CE from a week of just doing casual runs, selling off materials in the new-found huge demand for them and selling recipes for profit and buying CE with proceeds. Those with the extra 5* items that can be unbound won't be able to add the full cost of the item plus unbinding, but rather how much additional funds they can immediately get from items they don't need in a market where they have to be cheaper to make the sale. Maybe it's unfair in a way, but they got plenty of use from the item over the time when it was relevant to them and it's likely to not be of any use to them once it became obsolete.
If you can sustain your runs by yourself at this point, making profits is pretty easy. And if you can stockpile some spare cash, you should easily be able to see some benefit from saving up, if not in the form of a full 5* set, at least get a shortcut in one or two slots.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 22:04
#8
Being pretty new myself
Being pretty new myself (only playing for a few days) and not quite up to the point where I've even bought a 3* recipe yet, I'm still looking forward to when I can upgrade myself to a 3* weapon.
I'm not sure what you mean when you're talking about how the increase is underwhelming, but I think that perhaps you're talking about the stats shown for the weapons? I honestly can't say I'd be too concerned about that if I were to upgrade the 2* weapon I'm using now, because the upgrade would mean that my damage would increase instead of decrease each floor of the second tier 2 stratum, making it easier for me to earn crown by farming there.
Even upgrading from 0* to 1* weapons was nice for me early on, because it made it easier for me to take on an arena at depth 7 that had given me trouble prior when I was still using only Proto gear...as opposed to dieing because the 8x Gun Puppies were giving me too much trouble. To me, that seems to be the main point of 1* and 3* weapons: not to leave 0* or 2* weapons in the dust, but to have more of an effect in the latter levels of the tier they're for, where their predessors are weaker from dealing less damage each floor after the first stratum of that tier.
Mon, 06/20/2011 - 00:15
#9
OP, the next time you think
OP, the next time you think you have something new or worthwhile to say, please keep it to yourself.
Mon, 06/20/2011 - 04:35
#10
You're late
by about one month. It's too bad you weren't a part of the [crapstorm] when it happened.
The 3-4* items will not feel much more powerful in lower tiers due to the damage cap in those places. The real potential of the high level items will be revealed when you hit lower depths. For instance, a fang of vog which hits for easily 400 in the lowest depths only does about 50-60 in early T1 and while its fire ticks can easily kill me in T3 when I'm not careful, it can barely scratch away half a HP after 3 or 4 in T1.
In addition, chose your equipment well early on and find a playstyle that's safe for you and you won't feel like it's a waste to level it further because it'll serve you way later...
When I first got into T3, I've solo'd from 1 to 29, including most danger rooms and all arena stages from just relying on the ascended calibur charge, shield bumping and improvised hit and run tactics; it's not to say it's something hard or even worth doing over regular boss or recipe runs at this point but it should prove that the difficulty step up in lower depth is anything but impossible for newcomers.
If I had any advice at this point, it would be to just do runs that are safe and easy for you and hoard money/energy. When the unbind patch comes, you'll be glad to have built up your bank since you might be able to afford yourself a huge shortcut.
Even now, the market is saturated to the point you can pick up almost any pre-4* gear without an unique variant for cheaper than if you had to spend energy to hunt the recipe and make it yourself. I even occasionally see things on the auction house selling for lower than their minimal alchemy cost and sometimes even their NPC trash-selling cost.