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I hate reCAPTCHA so much!

16 replies [Last post]
Fri, 06/15/2018 - 13:42
Nitronicx

Sorry for this rage rant, but those captcha tests after saving your edits infuriate me both so much and so easily.

When I make myself finally do something for the wiki after a week or so of doing nothing, those captcha tests kick in halfway through my work and force me to stop and immediately go to do something else because I'm obviously not wanted there. I know they are there to protect wiki from spam, what's basically lots of edits in short period of time, but sometimes that's exactly what I need to do. And there's nothing more heartwarming than an "intelligent" widget from Google telling you that your computer sends "automated requests you probably don't know about". I feel this thing is doing more harm than good currently.

At first, captcha is always nice. You click the box, it shows green tick, everyone's happy. Then it throws you a test or two. They are usually quite simple. But good luck if you start messing up. Not even that, keeping editing the wiki is enough for the tests to get tougher. Eventually, you'll be doing series of ridiculous tests of ridiculous length. Simply, because you want to edit the wiki.

Also those tests can be pretty unclear. My favourite instruction is to check all boxes with "signs with street names" (translated to English from Slovak). Funny thing is that it doesn't want only signs with street names or any signs with some street name on them. It wants official signs along with all other traffic signs, despite there's no word about traffic signs. I think. I've learned this through trial and error. Fortunately, after that, this is one of the better tests to get.

And now those images itself. Ah, what are those 2 pixels behind trees in the background? You can't tell? Do you think it is a car? If it is a car and you won't check it, you may fail the test, but if you check it and it won't be a car, you may fail it as well. And what about this red car? It's large and obviously a car, but its edges are just poking out to other squares near it. Does those few red pixels count as the car is in that square? Does it not? Is it taken into account and the square can both be or not be checked in order to pass the test? Was that the reason why you failed last test? ???

reCAPTCHA: Easy on Humans, Hard on Bots.
Yeah, of course, definitely. I fully agree.

Last time I experienced pinnacle of what captcha tests can offer. Today it wasn't half bad, but seeing as the tests are getting constantly more difficult despite my best efforts to solve them correctly drove me insane really quickly. Just knowing that it's going to get as annoying as it was last time. And I was passing them! That's what I learned today, that it judges you primarily by how many edits you did recently.

I miss that old simple 2-word captcha verification so much when this new starts being "smart".

I don't expect or want to hear any words of consolation from anyone (nobody cares anyway), I just wanted to say out loud how incredibly annoying this system is to me. Ideally, I'd want it replaced, but that won't happen since GMs don't visit this section of the forums and I haven't asked them directly either. I doubt they would replace it if I did, but who knows, maybe they would.

Fri, 06/15/2018 - 17:24
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
I care

I care. They're annoying. I have failed them. But I don't know what to do about it.

Sat, 06/16/2018 - 03:33
#2
Nitronicx
Thanks

Thanks, Bopp.

Wed, 06/27/2018 - 20:28
#3
Glushy
derp

Deeeerrrrrrp

Sat, 07/07/2018 - 07:58
#4
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↑↑↓↓←→←→ba

"I'm not a bot" tests are now getting into the same arms race that passwords did about a decade ago. The bots can typically solve them faster than humans. The last paper I read on the original word-based captchas could solve any variation of them with 99.7% accuracy in about 25ms. It's caused google to forcibly remove it from the API for being completely obsolete (March 2018).

The new image ones are pretty poor for clarity, but they are currently the best defense. The last numbers I saw on solving the image ones are at around 44% accuracy with an average solving time of 22.5s. This was in 2016. Yeah, the best defense. That's why they perpetually bombard you with "are you still not a bot" requests.

Definitely slows down any well intended users. I'm hoping all the research switches gears from "stop them from making edits" to "here's a smart way to find them and prevent their edits from going public" without moderator input. But for now, it's a rather unfortunate status quo.

Sun, 07/08/2018 - 12:28
#5
Nitronicx
Not a problem anymore?

After I wrote that rant above, I somewhat put up with it and didn't get very mad again. But what's more interesting, captcha seems to be less suspicious now.

During last weeks of school I logged on my account at school computer and continued with creating redirects for items from latest prize box (Aerodynamic). Overall, about 9 of 10 edits immediately showed that green tick without requiring me to do any tests. I created all remaining ~60 redirects and the captcha was as nice as when I began. Maybe it was because of school's internet, maybe because of private/inkognito mode on the browser (what I seriously doubt), I didn't know, but I expected it to work normally when I'll be home.

Yesterday, I was creating redirects for current prize box. Again, captcha wasn't very active and in the most part it let me do my job (I've found one image that I swear was front of a bus but I had to select it to be a store facade). I think I got more tests than when I was at school, but still, captcha made no drastic measures for me making ~100 edits. No private mode this time.

In contrast, that "you're a bot mode" I was talking about in the first post was achieved in ~30 edits (second time I rage-quitted before tests reached that state).

What I want to say is that something has happened and captcha isn't as annoying all of a sudden. I don't know if there are some algorithms allowing me to do more tests without ramping up the difficulty, if there's someone messing with Google or if someone from Grey Heavens saw this, went ahead and tweaked or intentionally broke the captcha. But if they did, I'm very grateful for that.

Fun fact regarding old 2-word captcha: There was image with word "calle" like 50% of the time.

Sun, 07/08/2018 - 14:37
#6
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↑↑↓↓←→←→ba

Google logs IPs and a handful of other data about the "not a bot" queries. They're google, so they can get a glimpse of other tabs being opened in your browser, the last set of google cookies that have been updated on your computer, and a wide variety of other items. Switching devices, internet access location, and using private browsing tends to get on their bad side.
Essentially, if you don't change that stuff for a long enough duration... you get on the "generally trustworty" side of the algorithm. I sometimes take not getting those image tests as a sign that I'm not protecting my personal data enough.

For the check-mark one, they use mouse movements (so it's typically not available on mobile devices). If you use a touchscreen, it tends to break the checkmark one a bit more frequently for a additional test. That being said, reCAPTCHA v3 is currently in beta, which doesn't even need any user interaction. With the rise of smart devices, google needed to switch the style because people don't like playing an image clicking game on their phones.

Mon, 07/09/2018 - 07:22
#7
Nitronicx
Wow

Wow. I suspected it to be more complicated, simply because it's from Google, but I had no idea how it works. I don't attempt much to be as annonymous as possible, really the only things Google can be upset about is that I use Firefox and that I'm not logged in while using their services. I'm happy to have less annoying version, since it's handy for me. Also, it's kind of funny that I'm the only person on the SK wiki affected by this issue.

I would say that image tests are more confortable on phones than computers, but the point is probably that they have to do them constantly since there is no mouse to track.

Tue, 08/07/2018 - 12:45
#8
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

Bopp confirmed bot. The names even sound similar.

Thu, 10/10/2019 - 09:16
#9
Bidoknight's picture
Bidoknight
Oh, I see now.

I came back recently to the game and went around the wiki and did a bunch of edits and for the first time, for all I can remember in SK, had to do a captcha, and had to for every minor edit, from the first one. I recently installed Ublock, and considering Bopp's comment about Google cookies being part of Captchas, I'd assume that might be part of it.

Sorry for almost, kinda, graveyarding this.

Thu, 10/10/2019 - 18:20
#10
Bopp's picture
Bopp
I didn't say that

I didn't say anything about Google cookies' being part of captchas, but thanks for thinking of poor old me.

Sat, 10/19/2019 - 21:04
#11
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

for me it kicks in after about 9-10 edits, has worse ones after 20 edits, but there's a cooldown of about an hour. So I save some editing for later.

Thu, 09/02/2021 - 17:47
#12
Lenny-Lava's picture
Lenny-Lava
A suggestion.

4chan has recently changed its Google reCAPTCHA for another better and simpler system were the issues you’re ranting about are essentially non-existent and if 4chan could do it i don’t see why Spiral Knights can’t. Also >I haven't asked them directly either. I doubt they would replace it if I did, but who knows, maybe they would. Well, you won’t know until you try Nitronicx!

Thu, 09/02/2021 - 18:12
#13
Lenny-Lava's picture
Lenny-Lava
🆃🅴🆂🆃🅸🅵🆈🅸🅽🅶 ​ 🆃🅴🆂🆃!

Do spiral forum thread replies give email notifications like in other forums? It's not like i'll monitor these things 24/7.

Sun, 09/05/2021 - 07:08
#14
Bopp's picture
Bopp
I have never seen notifications

I have never seen an option for notifications. But then I haven't gone looking for them. If they exist, then they're probably in the "Forum Preferences" link near the top of this page. Or I guess they could be in your account page.

Tue, 09/28/2021 - 09:06
#15
Lenny-Lava's picture
Lenny-Lava
ZERO!

Bopp I have followed your advice and unfortunately have found NOTHING!

Tue, 09/28/2021 - 12:53
#16
Bopp's picture
Bopp
right

Right. I doubt that they exist. Too bad.

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