I'm trying to do the defender elite missions on elite difficulty because I need eternal orbs to upgrade the rest of my equipment to 5 stars. I have Leviathan Blade lvl 1, Azure Guardian Armor lvl 2, Mighty Cobalt Helm lvl 10 and Mighty Defender lvl 1. But when I get hit I lose 1/3 or half my hp. I like using mostly my sword but I can't anymore because the monsters attack back while I'm attacking them and I die in a couple hits. I don't think I'm a bad player; I move a lot, use my shield bash to stun the monsters and dash back to avoid getting hit but I don't have enough of an window to attack. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I feel like I hit a brick wall.
Why am I taking so much damage?
Mon, 07/30/2018 - 00:26
Mon, 07/30/2018 - 03:54
#2
common
First, you are using the mission reward equipment. The weapons are not bad but not great; consider reading my sword guide. The armor and shield are terrible; consider reading my armor guide.
Second, this is how Tier-3 Spiral Knights is. You cannot rely on your armor to absorb hits. Depending on how defensive your armor is, you can survive anywhere from 3 to 5 hits. Each hit is a serious blow. So you must avoid getting hit altogether.
The simplest strategy is to switch to a charge-heavy play style. That is...
- Charge your sword. While you are charging, keep moving. Never stop. For example, run in large circles around the room.
- When your sword is charged, run up to a small clump of monsters and release the charge. They will be interrupted, damaged, and knocked back.
- Repeat.
This play style alone will handle all melee (short-range) monster attacks. For example, you should be able to get through the first two levels of the Royal Jelly Palace without taking any damage. I'm not kidding. You can do it.
Projectiles can still be difficult, so you must learn the AI well, as Nigel-Thornberries explained.
Mon, 07/30/2018 - 04:32
#3
meow
I just wrote like a full guide on how to play the game with a huge wall of text that took me about 10 mins to write then the browser hit me with a random refresh... I hate my life...
Mon, 07/30/2018 - 05:43
#4
The Return of Ur
I believe that one of those missions is The Return of Ur, which contains mix of Devilites and Spookats. Devilites are very sword-unfriendly when they are in larger groups, as you likely can tell. To this day I have trouble coming up with any strategy how to kill them with my sword without taking damage. Then there are Spookats, whose lunges can easily overwhelm any knight new to Tier 3.
I suggest bringing a gun for this mission, if you have one. If you want to simply finish this mission in any way, find other players and it should be much easier. For me, the most difficult level of that mission is the first one where you have to open a gate at the very beginning, so maybe try to avoid that one when you go alone. If you want to challenge yourself and complete it without reviving or any other self-imposed challenge, maybe try to not fight and just dodge and try to survive as long as possible. It should teach you how those monsters fight. When fighting regularly, not hitting enemies is also a good way to separate Silkwings from groups, since without target they will randomly wander around the room. If your target is only to get Eternal Orbs, you can try doing some Arcade. Eternal Orbs drop in the entirety of Tier 3.
Lastly, here's a summary of Devilite promotion/demotion mechanics:
Pit Bosses can either promote or demote a Devilite, changing it to Yesman or Overtimer. If said Devilite manages to jump away from Pit Boss in time (or you push it with shield), it can avoid being changed. Pit Bosses will try to change every Devilite they can see and always target the closest one. If Pit Boss gets too far away from other Devilites, it becomes normal Devilite. If all Devilites are Pit Bosses, they will turn into normal Devilites. If one Pit Boss dies, the closest Overtimer (or also Devilite?) becomes Pit Boss. Yesmen can't become Pit Bosses. If Pit Boss dies near Yesman (Roughly within 5-7 blocks? Just to give you an idea.), it becomes Overtimer. It doesn't depend on whether the Pit Boss was Yesman's target or not. This allows you to slowly decrease number of Pit Bosses to 1. Yesman's only ability is to boost defense of its Pit Boss. Yesman will always target the closest Pit Boss. Overtimers can't change into normal Devilites by getting too far away from others. Most of these mechanics operate in quite large area around a Pit Boss/Yesman/Overtimer/Devilite unless specified otherwise (probably as large as average Dark City arena, but usually you can trigger/avoid triggeting those mechanics when Devilites are in different corners of the arena).
1 Pit Boss 1 Yesman scenarios:
Killing Pit Boss and Yesman at the same time results in clear arena.
Killing Yesman while Pit Boss is in its death animation results in clear arena.
Killing Pit Boss while Yesman is in its death animation results in Pit Boss still being transformed into Devilite.
@Zero-Chill
I've managed to make my wall of text, although it took me way longer than 10 minutes. Also, when such thing happens, I usually can reload previous page with text still intact. But hard refresh still can erase whatever I have prepared without any way to recover it... Either way, sorry to hear that.
Tue, 07/31/2018 - 01:15
#5
My solution to this problem
guns
Tue, 07/31/2018 - 05:42
#6
meow
Learn single/double switching from YouTube videos, never stop dashing even when you're in the middle of the fight, don't shield bash except if you are under the shadow cloak, shielding isn't as important as it looks but it's always nice to have some balanced shield like Barbarous Thorn Shield. For gear use Divine Veil with Chaos Cloak this is a pretty balanced set that provides you with the most important defenses, resistances and offensive buffs. Use an elemental brandish or obsidian edge for charge oriented playstyle or sealed sword/warmaster rocket hammer/flourish/acheron if you prefer hack n slash. Get a gun or a bomb to support your swords I suggest a vortex bomb (any except graviton) and a blaster (any of them would work except for valiance). Bind your weapons to bindings for each single weapon rather than using previous/next weapon switching, nobody knows why, but there's a relatively huge difference in speed where there is a limit for the speed of normal switching but not for key bindings, they're just as fast as your reflexes, also you won't switch to the wrong weapon anymore. Something I personally do is single switching after every single action that I do now I can single switch asi max flourish without any problem, I never actually see anyone doing this but it really really helps in the long run. I also suggest you invest in the DLC as the items it gives is worth pretty much x4 its price in my opinion. If you play devilite/kat levels a lot everyday you're gonna become pro in a matter of days of you already have a good grasp of the game's mechanics (this is from personal experience, no pain no gain eh). This is much smaller than my original post so it should be easier to understand I hope xd. If you're having any trouble with single/double switching just mail me in game anytime and I'd be more than happy to explain to you in game.
Thu, 08/02/2018 - 17:39
#7
Bombers never have to stop up or slow down.
Just putting that out there.
Thu, 08/02/2018 - 20:21
#8
meow
The fastest D&N clearing load out is a pure bomber loadout. Mad bomber with 2 health trinkets and bomb damage sprite perk with Dark Retribution, Dark Briar Barrage, Ash of Agni and Celestial Vortex. If I remember correctly it only took about 8 mins or less to fully complete the last arena. Bombs are in no means slow, they're the fastest clearing things in this game. (get a Nitronome nd learn how to chain with its knockback and you're gonna be a god with it)
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 00:55
#9
Less aggressive tactics, more evasive ones
As a beginner, you may have been used to continuously smacking your enemies with sword combo after combo, especially in Tier 1. As you proceed to Tier 2, you may start realising that such a tactic causes you to get hurt more often, but it nonetheless sort of works. Once you are in Tier 3, things change drastically and you can't go full rambo on enemies like that, or you'll be met with a quick and swift death. I'll be focusing on how you can still use your sword in general
You need to focus on not getting hit while dealing damage. In general, sometimes you should not finish your combo unless it's only one enemy you're dealing with and they are backed against the wall. When you are up against so many enemies, trying to do a sword combo leaves you wide open to attacks.
You may also try and lean towards using charge attacks only (works best with brandish-line). Without UVs, this may not be a viable technique as your charge attacks will take way too long to charge. You can try to purchase mod calibrators to craft sword focus trinkets, or buy them directly. You can also aim to get a CTR UV on your sword, or get the sword focus perk of your sprite. Once you have a decent CTR (I consider at least +4/Very High to be sufficient), you can use this tactic. Simply charge your sword while running away from the enemy, and when your charge is ready, turn back and swing it at the enemies before running away and repeating.
Above all things, sometimes it is just not viable to use swords. You can use guns to put yourself at a safe distance from the enemies instead
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 04:20
#10
hmm
Above all things, sometimes it is just not viable to use swords.
There are a few places in the game where swords are harder than guns or bombs, but I'm having trouble coming up with an example of a fight that cannot be done with swords.
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 04:38
#11
meow
Oh, I just remembered that I forgot to mention something. You can reposition and continue your combo with swords like swinging it two times then holding a charge and walking forward a tile then releasing as fast as possible. I can show you how to do it in game if you'd like. Just mail me.
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 05:43
#12
@Bopp
That one room in Scarlet Fortress where you're trapped and all the ghosts spawn over pits.
You can still hit them with swords if you use Winmillion or Suda.
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 07:51
#13
pretty good example
You're "supposed" to kill them with the fire pots, and I have done it on several occasions. But that is quite tedious, so it's a pretty good example.
Fri, 08/03/2018 - 11:20
#14
Given that ghosts are resistant to fire, I think the fire pots are there to rub your lack of weapon diversity in your face.
Sat, 08/04/2018 - 14:23
#15
I started playing Spiral
I started playing Spiral knights because I like games like Ys and the old Zelda games and SK felt like that at the beginning. But now that playstyle doesn't work anymore because all the enemies attack me in the middle of my 3 strike combos. I tried doing shorter combos but my sword doesn't do enough damage and the battles take too long. I thought I was getting a jack of all trades weapon but normal damage isn't enough on elite.
Even my gun, it fires two shots and reloads; You'd think that's how it's supposed work but I've been using it wrong all the way because if I hold my shield and switch weapons I can shoot it faster without reloading.
Sat, 08/04/2018 - 17:41
#16
Yeah. The game becomes less hack & slash and more strategy + hack & slash at this point. The Leviathan Blade is more of a situationally convenient / have-fun-with-it kind of weapon, but it just falls in comparison to specialized weapons if you’re just using the regular combo. Generally speaking, it just... kinda gets the job done. The middle ground of efficiency, not good nor bad. The charge works tremendously well if you know how to exploit it, though. It’s a favorite of mine if you’ve got the right offense boosts, but the normal damage doesn’t do it too much justice if you’re looking for efficient but beginner-friendly T3 combat. Especially since it usually doesn’t have enough power to stop an enemy’s attack- you’d need stronger swords with better ASI (since T3 monsters attack faster than before) in order to squeeze in a rather reckless combo without getting hit yourself (Avoided by using some of the advice from us). It’s why the other weapon classes become important if you have a hard time approaching swords a little differently.
I’m also assuming that you’ve got an Alchemer of some sort, and that you’re just firing the gun. The thing you’ve described is a vital part of what makes a quick gunner. However, you’ve got an Alchemer; that thing’s also insanely powerful if used well. You get an extra ricochet and projectile speed per star upgrade I believe (so 4-5* is what you want to get that bang for your buck), and it’s a pretty good choice for someone who likes placement and targeting management.
When you use Alchemers, their shots bounce off targets and walls to the left. When you’re firing at a target, there’s a sweet spot on the right edge of their hitbox that allows your bullet to hit them, but the ricochets get caught within the target, causing immense damage. Applying this to the charge attack is about the same, but more powerful. Or even better, get it straight inbetween two targets, or a closed group of targets.
On the other chance that you have a Magnus-line handgun (or other accessible 2-shot guns that I may not remember), or are planning on getting one, that thing’s charge attack has been buffed to sky above. It’s a simple line-up-the-targets into a straight line and the damage is just too tough to argue with. Great against Devilites if you know how to anticpate both their movement and (how to dodge) their projectile attacks.
Even greater for immediate results.
Well hello again!
First off, I’d like to say, welcome to Elite Tier 3. Physical defense at this difficulty / tier become less important compared to how much HP you need for mistakes and the damage monsters deal- thus your main focus here is to instead focus on dodging enemy attacks.
And from there, you need to not only focus on memorizing the attacks of all the monsters (and how to evade / counter them), but you also need to focus on changing your own attack patterns to adapt to a more improvisable situation.
I previously told you about a technique / tip in your other post- you can use that- but first off, you should learn to not hammer away to deal the most damage ASAP- especially for what you have. You need to look at the type of monster (Whether it be Devilites, Wolvers, or even Status-specific monsters like Oilers), see how they react to different circumstances, anticipate what attack they’ll use, and when. This is extremely important for surviving at your level- running in head-on kills knights in this difficulty and tier- for even careless Vanguards with the best gear can fall pretty quickly.
To accomodate your swordplay style, first try to deliver single hits (hit and back off) on some enemies and observe how they react to your attacking style and your distance away from them. I say this because some monsters change their attack behavior based on how close or far you are from them, like the Zombie. Then try to see where you can fit in double hits without taking damage back-
Ah, a tip I forgot mentioning is baiting! An effective strategy is to coax the monster into attacking first, so that you can shield and move in (ex. Devilites), or for slower monsters, coax them into attacking a certain direction so that you can get to their side without repercussion (ex. Lumbers, Scuttlebots, Retrodes). Most, if not all monsters have a cooldown before attacking again, giving you ample time to move in and attack before retreating again. Additionally, a well-timed dash will allow you to lose aggro from enemies or dash through their attacks- so long as it’s not at the prime moment of their attack. You could even dash into some enemies before or during their attack (depending on the monster) and not take any damage. The scuttlebots in the training halls are good test targets.
Then there’s your distancing issue. There’s the technique mentioned earlier, or just simply get close and personal after baiting their attacks. The closer you are, the more risk there is in taking damage if it’s a group of monsters. However, you can deal extra damage by having your sword combo beat your target into a group of enemies, getting them all into your sword’s hitbox. If I remember right, the Leviathan Blade is strong enough to make enemies flinch on the third hit (For Stratum 5 monsters?). Beware- exercise caution before getting personal- check your environment for traps or other monsters that might make your attempt a total disaster.
Shielding! Super important techniques coming in here. Basic shielding techniques involve holding up your shield after a sword combo in order to push away enemies who didn’t flinch, that way you avoid the damage taken (does not work on heavy enemies). On top of that, however, is something even more important. When you bring up your shield during an attack (hold the shield button while doing your attack animation), you can cut off lag frames that would make you stand in place longer. By applying this to your final attack, you can get in and get out of that combo quicker. Alternatively, you can use your shield push (bump, for better word) in conjunction with baiting and evasion tactics so that you have more room to work with after dodging attacks.
I’d love to show you more, but you’d need to handle those first- and I’m super busy this coming week. I’m sure there’s someone out there who’d love to help you out! I recommend practicing with any place that isn’t Fiend or Gremlin, since they’re the most complex / hard-hitting / hard to predict monster families out there.