Spiral Knights - Need LD gunslinger tips/advice for a lagger

Need LD gunslinger tips/advice for a lagger

20 replies [Last post]

Tue, 08/21/2018 - 08:48

Tpen-Five-Fun

I'm playing with a red bar. I just found out yesterday that the delay was longer than I think.
Just on a ld match yesterday on gardens, I was sitting on the nearest cap point with a charge attack ready til an opponent appeared and clears the bushes on a narrow entrance. Before he clears the last obstacle(bush), I released the charge attack and I hit and killed him several tiles away. The screen froze for a few milliseconds and I was surprised that his corpse was just infront of me and he said on chat "Got hit by a storm driver charge point-blank range". WOW POINT-BLANK RANGE! But on my pc, he was at the corner of my screen when the projectile hit him.

I have more problems:
- Rubberbanding effect happens whenever my actual character on the screen gets damaged or bumped anything.
- I am getting killed by a sword with like 2x to 3x range
- Bullets just pass through whenever the shot connects on a target, I can only see the past so I need to predict/guess where my target will be after like 1.5 sec.

I used to play recon + dual Storm Driver 24/7, and shocking the opponent is my only way to counter latency, get dmg, and help my teammates but lots of ppls calls it cancer like Polaris so I stopped using it. My dmg usually ranges from 3k - 14k (Depending on the players and map). I tried tons of handgun combinations but I still kept on getting treated as a Punching bag on LD. I am getting tempt to use my dual storm driver whenever I'm getting smoked.

I tried magnuses but its harder to hit a target and it kills my mobility whenever I have to shoot.
I tried obsidian carbine but I barely do any dmg.
I tried tons of alchemer/blaster combinations but it barely gets me anywhere
I tried hybrid blaster/alchemer + no asi GF/Brandish but I can barely hit anything with my swords.
I tried single-switching but latency can cause switch-spamming to break

I'm gonna try Dual Hail and I think it might work for as an alternative for dual storm. No matter how much I get pwned, I don't want to quit LD cuz I love it. So plz any tips, advice, and strategy to share? Plz don't tell me to use Pulsars or switch to pure bombs/sword. Tnx...

Wed, 08/22/2018 - 16:06

Light-Il

Best Tip

Stop shocking people

Wed, 08/22/2018 - 17:24

Zero-Chill

meow

As a fellow LD lagger, I can relate to this... Here are some of my own tips...

Magnus bullets are the fastest in the game they hit the moment you click which means they'll reward a low latency player by literally not missing a shot when using AT (theoretically), however due to your latency the bullets won't hit that often and will leave you wide open to get punished except if you can predict without using AT or when the opponent is traveling at a straight line directly towards you.
TL;DR version: Unless you can predict the future stay away from magnuses.

Blasters are my weapon of choice, I crafted Arcana, Riftlocker and Phantamos all with medium ASI so I can switch between them depending on the defenses of the opposite team. Their bullets are faster than alchemers and they do decent damage and can be somewhat cheaper than most guns to get ASI on since Blaster is a standard weapon. I use AT with them except on hardcore weekend (obviously) because the shots just keep passing through players and I can't predict the future. I always stay at either the max range (because flourishes got 4-8 tiles of range for me) or point blank (mainly to confuse the enemy and dance around them with my bullets, this is most effective on gunners). However, when using AT against a swerving enemy, the bullets will usually miss so you have to reposition yourself rather than trying to aim cause trying to aim is almost always an already lost battle for us laggers.
TL;DR version: Go for a blaster as your main weapon and make sure to use AT.

Antiguas have faster bullets than blasters which makes them the most obvious choice for a lagger. About 80% of LD players wear shadow defense so you wouldn't like to use Obsidian Carbine (except to piss people off) use either Argent Peacemaker or Guilded Griffin. They don't need ASI so that's a plus. You should land more shots (especially with AT) since they have some of the faster bullets.
TL;DR version: Faster but weaker version of blasters to use when you're bored or when playing against extremely skilled players (skilled = got less latency than you).

Alchemers are predict-heavy guns for a lagger. Even some people with good latencies have some trouble landing their shots because of how slow they travel and little they are compared to blasters' bullets. Also using shock guns is frowned upon in the LD community. I swore to myself to never craft a Storm Driver or a Polaris ever but I just found people spamming them all over the place and I'm now at a greater disadvantage so I decided to try Storm Driver. I could barely land any hits with or without AT. My aim isn't perfect but it isn't bad at all, the shots hit but don't do any damage usually, so I tried doing something else, basically I went striker and turned my trusty AT on and went point blank and spammed single-switch storm driver and it kinda worked but the "good" players (basically anyone with good latency) were still so hard to get close to. Any alchemer that isn't Umbra Driver (cause everyone got shadow defense lol) would be great in LD IMO but the status ones shine more because of the chaos/black kats.
TL;DR version: Kinda hard to land but more rewarding than most other guns if you do.

Don't even bother with swords, I only have a Final Flourish equipped for when someone gets close to me or when I chase someone who's out of boost, I have to hit in front of the target's body by 1-3 tiles for the hit to actually register.

Regarding the single-switching problem you have, I rarely ever run into problems like that, make sure you bind your weapon slots to keys rather than using next/previous weapon-switching as there's a delay before actually switching when using the next/previous weapon-switching maybe it's the game processing what weapon you're gonna switch into or something not sure so it feels so sloppy. However when you bind your weapon slots to keys the switching becomes instantaneous allowing you to switch just as fast as your fingers can move. If you want me to teach you proper single-switching (if you don't already know) just mail me.

Oh and also set your resolution to 1280x600 so you can see further. By making stuff on your screen smaller, you got more screen space to see them coming.

Thu, 08/23/2018 - 00:22

Tpen-Five-Fun

Big tnx for the tips

Big tnx for the tips. So I think I should get a gilded griffin and maybe pair it with arcana/riftlocker+Umbra.
Btw wut do you mean bind weapon slots to keys? I use mouse scroll for switching btw.
I very used to single-switch (doing it more on solo FSCs) but rubberbanding back has a chance to break your switching as your character will teleport on the past, and it would break when your past was holding the 2nd weapon while switching. uhh hard to explain.

Ex. I am single-switching umbra driver with GF as my 2nd weapon. While I'm continuously switching, my character rubberbanded back due to getting hit or bumped something. And after I got threw back to the past, I am now wielding GF cuz my past character was holding GF when got hit... and it will cause me to swing GF unintentionally since my fingers are still doing the single-switching pattern. This will cause me to get hit or maybe get killed.

A solution for this is to equip another fast gun on the 3rd weapon slot and put my GF on the 2nd slot. But the problem is I need to press "2" key which and doing that requires my middle finger to leave "w" key for awhile.

Maybe I should try Biohazard charge too, I know its gimmicky but I saw Rhons is sometimes using it (dunno if he's doing it for fun though). Although the bullet is slow and needs luck to hit something, its range and dmg is quite impressive, I got hit by a biohazard charge attack several times and it took like 10 bars.

I'm using a lower resolution than 1280x600 but I'll give it a try.

Thu, 08/23/2018 - 06:49

Zero-Chill

meow

I have weapon 1 on space 2 on q 3 on tab and 4 on left alt, left shift for dash, wasd movement and e for walking forward, shield bash on right alt (not important). Switching with the mouse wheel is so much harder compared to switching with the keyboard as well as slower and even more painful and stressful on your fingers so I advise against it. I can log on anytime to teach you how my setup works if you wish. It's easier to show you how it works rather than just talking about it. I designed this control setup so that everything is close to each other and I can reduce the delay for switching to a minimum (only a bit slower than a macro actually) with the shield bash so far away so I won't use it by mistake. Add me, I'll log on soon.

I tried Biohazard it's so bad due to hits not registering at all sometimes + being extremely easy to see coming except for a lagger. Gran Faust and heavy swords in general are extremely punishable if you miss a hit (which will happen 80% of the time due to them passing through enemies due to that damned delay), so I advise using a flourish instead because of its speed and "decent" range (which is about between point-blank and 3 tiles in front of the opponent). I usually equip 2 final flourishes one with ASI med and another with ASI high so I can minimize the delay to be able to hit something if I miss at first and creating a shield of slashes in feront of me when needed. I sometimes substitue the ASI med final flourish for an ASI high Acheron to play offensively or ASI med Warmaster Rocket Hammer to play defensively.

Thu, 08/23/2018 - 10:02

Forums-Bleyken

Use pulsar line guns. They're slow, you can just walk inside of your bullets for both offense and defense. You lag, you can't aim. Back in the day there was also the biohazard but you only have pulsars now

Thu, 08/23/2018 - 13:01

Zero-Chill

meow

He clearly said he doesn't wanna be a cancerous prick and spam pulsars...

Thu, 08/23/2018 - 16:47

Theirillusion

@Zero-Chill Using AT as a tip is really generic, he wanted help for his specific situation lol.

@OP The sooner you realize you are a target and need to focus on fighting incoming enemies the better. You cannot play with higher ping trying to chase down all the time and be the most agressive player (you can, but better not to in the long run). With this in mind, use guns suited for that play style. Bleyken already mentioned Pulsars, Feller proved this to work as well (he had 2 weak bars and used Polaris). It has been mentioned in this thread that people find Polaris annoying. Therefor you can use Drivers instead if preferred. The point is slower bullets that already requires prediction with single digit ping are more effective with high ping than guns with faster bullets. Guns with faster bullets will only do you good to become less predictable with multiple guns or for times when the enemy is statused (here: frozen, asleep, shocked or stunned).

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 00:37

Forums-Bleyken

@zero-child

If you wanted people not to become cancerous pricks you wouldn't recommend them to use aimbot

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 04:08

Zero-Chill

meow

@Triggerken

If you really think it's possible to play against final flourishes with 4-8 tiles of range without AT then prove it. Also I think area denial is more cancer. Way more cancer. I use my pola only when someone is spamming, hazing or most players on the opposite team got insane ranges (6+ tiles) and I still feel like crap when using it cause I know it annoys everyone as well. AT on the other hand isn't as annoying or hard to deal with. Except if the player got really good movement (and latency ofc, but if you got good latency you wouldn't need to use it in the first place).

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 06:06

#10

Tpen-Five-Fun

ASD

Final flourishes is almost an instakill for me. I'll be dead in just 3-4 slashes before I get out of their hit zone.

I have many thoughts of quitting LD (even if its hard). I really won't get anywhere by just spraying bullets behind and hoping for hits to get registered while avoiding getting hit by magical air slashes at the same time. Awhile ago, I got 360°d by a GF user 5 tiles away and its very infuriating. 75% of the time, I always end up quitting due to disappointment and its rare for me to press the quit button with a smile.

Gonna get Argent/Griffin and it would be my last hope, If I'm still a wooden dummy throughout the match... LD is over for me :( unless I get a mixmaster.
I'm playing LD for a very long time and I learned the habit and playstyles of most of the active LD players I'm playing with and its really embarassing if your're doing your best but your stats is just the same as a Good pinger that just started playing LD a week/month ago.

My guildmates are playing on the same country where I am so they also have 1 red bar and they are extremely aware of our handicap. Its getting old to see them praising and fearing consistent high scorers/carries like an unreachable opponent. Like when aritheial/Lord-of-incarnation or any formidable carries joins LD and is on the opposite team, they'll act like omg its imbalance/we're dead... when in reality, they might be as good as those hard carries they're praising or might be even better if they are playing with a good ping.

Another infuriating fact is that I have 2 guildmates that are consistent high scorers on LD and its annoying to think that we should rely on them as our carries on possible future guild ld matches just because they are playing on a different country.

Its also painful to read similar lines like
"We have no future on LD/We'll just get disappointed on LD, lets just play FSC, atleast we'll earn there :)"

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 07:00

#11

Zero-Chill

meow

Don't worry about being bad. Some matches I get 18k others I get 6k. And I'm pretty sure that my latency is worse than you since my bullets keep passing through you all the time and your bullets pull me back when they hit me like 2-4 tiles off me. So if I can hit that I'm sure you can as well. I still ragequit after playing a couple matches rarely with a smile but even though I ragequit I still kinda enjoy it, if you're able to get say like 20k with this horrible latency it feels so much better cause you know everyone is several steps ahead of you but you still beat them anyway. It's really an awesome feeling, I've always suffered in LD but I keep coming back cause it's just way too fun to give up on, I suggest you still play it from time to time even if you quit. And yes I consider most low-latency players to be like the kids whose parents are rich they usually don't bother as much with movement because they don't even need to, they literally see the future, you can see people with no idea of what they're doing hitting 15k and players who are really trying hard getting 6k. Another thing I forgot to mention is that you need as much MSI and ASI as possible to be able to compete with the low-latency players. If you're having trouble getting a black kat set go for mercurial or mercurial demo. I've managed to beat some low-latency players (double digit ping ones) with only swords even though it's still so hard that using a gun is almost a necessity, you can hone your skills and prediction by 1v1'ing some of your low-latency guildmates or LD friends. You'll keep losing at the start but once you get hold of how far you should be and when you should strike and how you should move you can be as good as some skilled 100-something pingers.

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 08:43

#12

Tpen-Five-Fun

Hmm how to know your ping?

Hmm how to know your ping? Also, I'm having trouble dealing with fellow gunslingers, every shot connected to me would make me rubberband back. I spammed more shots but few connected, they spammed fewer shots than mine but more connected.
Just awhile ago when aritheial was playing gunslinger guardian. He easily outgunned me with arcana, storm, gilded griffin and I've barely connected some shots even if he's playing a slow guardian, he accurately blew me back to the base with arcana and Griffin.
The same when I'm dealing with devil-marksman, he accurately outguns me with a few shots of callahan alone while I barely hit him by spamming alchemers/blasters.

I have mercurial demo set, but Idk if its worth to trade VH dmg and Ctr med in exchange for MSI med.

"And yes I consider most low-latency players to be like the kids whose parents are rich they usually don't bother as much with movement because they don't even need to, they literally see the future"

Hi does having a better internet affects latency? I thought its only your distance from the server. Monthly internet bill is expensive here in the PH yet its the slowest in Asia.

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 09:07

#13

Zero-Chill

meow

Of course your internet affects latency, also it's not only your internet and the distance from the server that affect it but also your PC. Kan-Ki told me that if you have a good PC it can solve the latency problem. There are a lot of red-bar players who hit from so far. Divine-Donut, Mercury shade and Aritheial are some examples. They have a red bar yet they seem to hit from very far (Divine Donut used to hit me from 10 tiles with Acheron on hardcore weekend before I got slightly better internet). However I didn't mean that their parents were literally rich, it was a metaphor, what I meant is that their life is much easier when it comes to dealing with stuff in LD.

Regarding the trade off you mentioned, Kan-Ki is a good example of someone who doesn't wanna be held back and his only ASI VH flourish is a Furious Flamberge (as far as I know), he uses it instead of the extra damage from FF or BTB, I think the same goes for MSI, you just don't wanna be held back, I used to go full black kat every match but I crafted a Crown of the Fallen recently and let me tell you, the tradeoff from MSI low + damage high to just ASI low had so much difference, I got cancelled a lot less when using swords and was actually able to use a heavy sword without being punished (not for as long at least). So yeah, it's pretty much worth the tradeoff of damage and CTR for MSI and ASI. You also shouldn't need CTR in the first place unless you're bombing, charges are really risky especially if they can see it from the future and can dodge them easily.

Fri, 08/24/2018 - 09:15

#14

Zero-Chill

meow

I think you forgot to mention that players can be literally everywhere on your screen, whenever there are 2 or more players in my line of sight at the same time, I usually get bodyblocked even when I'm like 4 tiles away, and it becomes REALLY frustrating once you die because of that. The solution for this problem is to always keep your distance and to have everyone in your sight. I usually NEVER go to the top of a map and never stay on a cap for the simple fact that it'd be so hard to react if someone approached me. I'm literally always at the bottom of the map, this tip will greatly help you if you have a long reaction time or the delay is so bad.

Tue, 08/28/2018 - 06:10

#15

Tpen-Five-Fun

I'm curious with the set-up,

I'm curious with the set-up, how do you switch-shoot with 1 key btw? XD

Tue, 08/28/2018 - 15:50

#16

Zero-Chill

meow

Well, you see, it's so inefficient that it's useless at high+ ASI range you basically only equip 2 weapons and use one button to switch for next weapon. It has a lot of delay though, compared to binding your weapon slots to keys. It's also fastest to use keyboard instead of mouse for switching (not for only this, but for every kind of switching), however, there's one mouse switching setup that I'm interested in which Lost-Incanation uses. Middle mouse button for shielding and scroll up for weapon 1 and scroll down for weapon 2. You can use this setup to basically single switch with one click and a slight movements from your finger. My mouse isn't good enough cause it's wheel is kinda scruffy so I don't use it, it can also stress your finger if you use it all the time.

It works like this... If you want to single switch weapon 1 hold middle mouse and scroll down then up again then release middle mouse, if you want to single switch weapon 2 hold the middle mouse and scroll up then down again then release middle mouse.

Fri, 08/31/2018 - 07:48

#17

Tpen-Five-Fun

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I actually found a better way to play recon gunslinger with 1 bar.

I found a specific strategy to use AT Dual-switching Callahan/Wintergrave works for me but the strategy isn't like what I do with alchemers (spray behind frontliners).

These are some of my best scores (but I can still get as bad as 4k) I got awhile ago and previous days with callahan/winter-grave: (I know they are low for some players but I think its actually high for a gunner suffering from latency.
http://prntscr.com/kp4adk
http://prntscr.com/kp4bg0
http://prntscr.com/kp4bvp

Fri, 08/31/2018 - 15:06

#18

Blue-Flood

I've been seeing you show up a lot as I play Tpen, and you're doing very well

The biggest tip I can give you is the same one I yell at to myself when playing recon - something that works with or without mega latency. That is to have patience! Since 90% of LD is striker based, it's so tempting to want to react and play your class as a fast reaction striker... Sometimes it's good to take a minute and watch them swing at nothing for 20 seconds while you move on to the next point.

Use the storm driver if you must btw. They will continue to use AT acheron with no regret. A person wearing kat gear with negative shock resist will get what's coming to them

Hope that helps :) Your general combat is awesome from my perspective considering your disadvantage, keep it up

Fri, 08/31/2018 - 17:22

#19

Tpen-Five-Fun

Hi, tnx for the tips. It's

Hi, tnx for the tips. It's similar on my strategy with magnus. Patiently waiting for them/luring them to swing their sword, ppls that spam charge attacks or do full sword combos with less asi (esp slow swords) takes hits more often... Like when a target does a 2-swing combo with their DA, I could actually land 3-4 magnus shots on them.

Despite its effectiveness, there are tons of cons I noticed when playing magnus-recon.

1.) Cloak getting drained and breaking is much more common.
2.) Defensive players that also do kiting strategy are difficult to deal with.
3.) Gunslingers that spams alchemers/blaster are difficult to hit.
4.) You can't take a hits, each hit drains drains cloak duration and each hit can rubberband you back when you got damaged while shooting magnus since it roots you in place everytime you shoot.

I usually pair my storm driver with my umbra driver, however my storm driver only got asi low and I'm less comfortable single-switching it. I might try the strategy with alchemers.

Fri, 08/31/2018 - 19:14

#20

Zero-Chill

meow

Use the storm driver if you must btw. They will continue to use AT acheron with no regret. A person wearing kat gear with negative shock resist will get what's coming to them.

HA! Say that to my double shock max Black Kat x Fallen set and ASI high Acheron set (always use AT with this set BTW) xD

I found a specific strategy to use AT Dual-switching Callahan/Wintergrave works for me but the strategy isn't like what I do with alchemers (spray behind frontliners).

Man, I wish I had that much patience, usually I'm rushing to kill my opponent as fast as possible cause offense is the best defense amirite. What I used to do with magnuses was to cloak and hit them while they're off-guard but if they were making the slightest of movement even AT doesn't help the least bit and I still miss shots so what I did was to go striker, wait for them to run after me and switch-shoot at them while they're running straight at me which is pretty much the only situation AT would do you good on.

People say that AT corrects your aim at a 15-degree angle but due to latency I have to predict not only where my shot will be but also where the target will be meaning that I more often than not land shots while firing 90 degrees away from the enemy so keep that on mind, everything you see is a mirage, you gotta predict your opponent's path while using guns in general.

I usually only go striker as it's my only way to survive. The guardian shield is the most useless thing there is in the game to me, even more useless than The-Hero-Cat. I have to shield literally 2 secs before an enemy appears on my screen not even before they do something which is SO FRSTRATING and I have to rely on my teammates to defend me which makes me feel bad that I'm not having any action. With recon due to all people moving around I usually can't land a single shot on an enemy. So the striker boost helps me A LOT since I need as much speed as possible cause I use my movement to attack rather than my aim, just thought you might make use of this info.

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Need LD gunslinger tips/advice for a lagger