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Add counterplay to statuses

5 replies [Last post]
Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:24
Undercase's picture
Undercase

Friendly suggestion! Statuses should be revamped to be more interactive.

Despite their unique properties, the ways we play around each status are mostly the same: you either take a bunch of damage outright, you bring up your shield and wait for it to pass, or you experience some combination of the two. We default to our shields because statuses simultaneously prevent and punish us for trying to contribute to an encounter. In addition, you will almost always react to the same statuses in the same way, regardless of what monster families you are fighting.

Thus I propose the following rough changes:
Fire now deals less (or no) damage while you are standing still, and deals increased (or the same) damage only while you are moving.
Shock spasms are now heavily telegraphed and do not stun-lock shielding knights.
Poison no longer reduces damage dealt (or does so to a lesser degree), and causes knights to take damage from picking up hearts.
Curse now lasts way shorter and/or affects fewer slots.
Freeze now locks your cursor position, but no longer roots your knight and is maybe unbreakable. There might be some complications with this, so my complex solution is to have freeze function differently for knights and enemies, like poison currently does in regards to healing.

I’m still brainstorming for stun and sleep. Interestingly enough, there are niche cases where you want to get hit by these statuses such that they would benefit you.

I think these are some pretty minimal changes to implement but they could have huge (a few bad, but mostly good) consequences:
Statuses will still punish knights for playing too aggressively, as they did and should. However, they will not directly prevent knights from doing so, and there will be unique ways to avoid their consequences. You would have to change your play-style to account for said status, beyond just tanking it or holding up your shield.

Each combination of status, monster family, and arena/hazards should feel distinct compared even to its neighbors. Fighting a Trojan will feel different depending on if you’re frozen or on fire, and will be doable nonetheless. Getting poisoned in Dreams and Nightmares might mean you have a minefield of hearts to avoid. This is cool in the same way that statuses are already varyingly effective against certain monster families, like freeze on polyps or poison on gremlins, that goes beyond hard-coded status resistance.

Finally, these changes will allow knights with a less diverse arsenal to better succeed. In other words, they are not punished as hard for not having a specific armor line to resist a certain status. This is intended for newer knights but might also pave the way for multi-status encounters. Admittedly, this is both good and bad, as it further devalues defensive equipment and status resistances in general. In discussing these status changes, we might also have to bring up the re-balancing of armor.

Sat, 02/09/2019 - 06:53
#1
Zero-Chill's picture
Zero-Chill
meow

Honestly, I think they're just perfect the way they are. They also scale well with +ve/-ve resistances. To counter each status isn't just a matter of shielding. For fire you just take the damage outright, for curse you limit the use of certain weapons, for freeze you use your shield to shield bump monsters away, for shock you time your shielding to the shock spasm so you don't take damage and try to dash in and out at the right moments, for poison you be more careful not to make a mistake cause it'll be capitalized.

And if you have -ve status resistance they will have extended duration and intensity. People are just complaining about how bad fire and curse are because they wear glass cannon sets all the time, what's the point of complaining about them if you chose this path in the first place? I think this stuff is fairly balanced right now, if certain statuses annoy you then use defensive gear, nobody is gonna stop you.

That's also why I never recommend these sets for newbies, I think an ideal balanced set for newbies would be chaos cloak and divine veil with swiftstrike and a heavy-duty shield for harder content especially omega shell. Please stop recommending glass cannon sets and swiftstrike for newbies everytime they ask for gear recommendations.

Sat, 02/09/2019 - 18:13
#2
Undercase's picture
Undercase
squid noises

I disagree that +ve resistances do a good job against certain statuses, and I also disagree with some of the ways you mentioned to counter each status. I don’t use extra weapon slots, so swapping weapons while cursed does not work for me or for newer players. While frozen, not all mobs can be dealt with through shield-bumps, and if your shield breaks, maxed freeze resist will not always protect you from getting chain-frozen to death.

I do agree with the way you describe dealing with shock. I feel pretty comfortable attacking and just briefly shielding in anticipation of the spasm. However, I instead see most people immediately dashing away and holding up their shields, including both newer players and vanguards. Thus, I want shock to be more telegraphed.

Shielding may not always be necessary. However, for statuses like curse, poison, and stun, your damage potential will be severely gimped, and your mistakes will be capitalized on as you mentioned, so it may not even be worth contributing damage while you are statused. These statuses just feel like a waiting game, which is boring.

In particular, curse lasts for 20+! seconds, and if you don’t have high resists (which does do a good job, I think 1 cursed weapon is fair) and/or extra slots, you will spend that time not doing much. I use a glass cannon set and am biased as such; I am fine having 3 cursed weapons, but not for 50 seconds.

I agree that we should expect to be penalized for wearing aggressive armor. However, as a glass cannon player, there is universal defensive value in killing things faster. In addition, newer players and even most vanguards won’t have most armor sets crafted. Even if you are using purely defensive equipment, you are still penalized if it’s not the correct set. Thus, I disagree that armor should be the main way to deal with status.

Sun, 02/10/2019 - 06:05
#3
Zero-Chill's picture
Zero-Chill
meow

The only armor set I have in my arsenal is Black Kat and I'm not at all biased, that's how I deal with statuses and curse is rare anyway and for picking an armor set like that I deserve to be punished, usually I kill everything before it can inflict a status on me, as a glass-cannon main as well you should focus on doing the same and not bothering with getting hit in the first place, and if you do get hit you deserve the punishment, just thank god that glass cannon sets don't have -ve stun resist or else the whole community will scream "NeRf LuMbErS". With shock if you have +ve resistance you get less ticks with curse you have less weapons cursed but I do agree it should always leave at least one weapon uncursed IF you have neutral resistance or more.

Sun, 02/10/2019 - 11:19
#4
Sir-Pandabear's picture
Sir-Pandabear

Chaos used to have negative stun. It was understandably removed back when it only gave ctr + 1 and nothing else. I imagine they mostly did it because stun was broken.

It should be added back to chaos and kat in my mind. Throw sleep in there too.

Sun, 02/10/2019 - 11:48
#5
Zero-Chill's picture
Zero-Chill
meow

Honestly, I don't think they deserve to have more -ve status resists, what they need is a nerf in defense.

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