The main problems with Treasure Vaults (and how I would fix them)
Sun, 11/01/2020 - 05:36
Aight, I think Vaults do not need much of an introduction, if you’ve played it, you know it’s a very painful level (unless you get lucky and get the first room to be with no/a small quantity of echo blocks), that it’s really not that rewarding.
So, since I think the Gray Havens should change these levels quite a bit so they are worth the trouble, I’m going to point out all the things that are not only annoying, but also could be considered as artificial difficulty.
#1: The echo blocks
Definitely a cool mechanic on paper, but it fails on execution very hard, and that’s because it denies crowd control on scenarios where it’s totally necessary (like the first room, that usually contains an arena full of Slime Drops), and it kind of makes it impossible to progress unless you aid yourself with a freeze bomb or just get lucky with the RNG when the game decides to give you a room with no echo blocks. I guess a way to fix it would be moving the echo blocks to either the center or the corner of the rooms where they are used, or change the hundreds of Drops for a small quantity of regular Jelly Cubes/Mimics, so crowd control is not as necessary, thus passively reducing the effectiveness of the echo cube itself.
#2: The mimic boss
Honestly I feel this is the worst thing designed on the entire level (and even in the entire game), due how it has a full-screen attack and almost no way to hurt it unless you wear something that pierces through enemies (it even destroys bombs, so good luck if you are a bomber), since not only has tentacles protecting it’s body, but it spawns even more if you try to attach through the gaps, so it’s almost impossible to damage it consistently if you are not using a Divine Avenger, Iron Slug or Winter Grave. But wait, if it wasn’t enough, there’s more, because if all of this wasn’t enough, the boss gets full invincibility after every charge of Iron Slug and Winter Grave for no reason what so ever, unless the devs just wanted to make this even more tedious, I guess.
And do you know what do you get by beating this guy which is technically a boss? Around 2-3 Slime coins, some crowns, fire, and three fire crystals at times, which is literally nothing compared to any other way of farming crowns (like Fire Storm Citadel, Dreams & Nightmares, or even doing arcade alone).
So basically, the changes it needs it’s just, make bombs be usable on the Mimic boss (like any other boss in the entire game), remove the tentacles and the whole pointless thing of getting invincibility at certain times, and instead make it so it attacks you with the tentacles themselves the same way as the “The Big Iron” on the Ghosts in the Machine mission. I would keep the close-range attack and the shock wave as long as it takes a bit more of time to execute it so we can actually react to it.
#3: The rewards for beating the Vault
Well, you can get incredibly rarely a trinket that’s quite useful on certain situations, but the chances for it to spawn are incredibly minimal, making it not worth to farm, and there’s not other point on trying to beat a vault apart from this, so… I think I would just increase the amount of slime coins you get from the boss, or make it so the boxes there only drop slime coins, making you get around 10 slime coins on tier 1, 20 on tier 2 and 30 on tier 3. This would make it worth it to go for some Vault hunting and would actually give to the players another way to get a good quantity of money consistently apart from FSC (Vanaduke’s mission), and no, this would make FSC obsolete since to spend the slime coins you would need to wait for the Slime Casino event to be open, and there’s no easy way to access the Vault the same way you can with FSC, since it only appears on the arcade and there’s no consistent way to always get a Treasure Vault. So the RNG will keep it away from not being a broken way to get money.
#4: Some of the obstacles on the pathway part it’s a bit too much
This one it’s not too big of a deal, but I just feel the number of saws and traps in total are just too complex to comprehend and makes it really tedious to understand where and when you have to be on a certain spot, I would just lower the complexity on the ones that got the must stuff on them, which are usually the ones that consist of a very big room filled with saws and elemental traps.
This one it’s not totally necessary though, I do not find it too stressful or unbeatable, but some of the paths are quite complicated and they just make me want to use my Seraphynx’s shield to go through them.
I know the Treasure Vaults are not the most necessary change on the game, but I still feel it could be an interesting and important change if done right.
Thu, 01/14/2021 - 18:13
#2
Echo blocks limit the type of
Echo blocks limit the type of weapons you can use in those rooms... generally I use an Ash of Agni for that and for the boss you're almost forced to use a Winter Grave or Iron Slug
That's the main flaw, the obstacles are fine and for the fact that it's rather difficult the reward is just mediocre...
Sat, 04/17/2021 - 05:44
#3
Opinions + Pitch In w/ Additional Issues
"#1: The echo blocks"
From my experience, it only really becomes an issue when it comes to using bombs that purely do damage because of the AoE (Area of Effect). Using Status Bombs, Handguns, and Swords that don't go outside of a certain range is a typical go-to here. Alchemers, Windmillion/Turbillion, and Catalyzers are on the list for example of what not to use. Outside of Treasure Vault, Echo Blocks don't cause too much of a problem honestly unless they're too close together in a locked room. In the past too, they used to do A LOT more damage as well before a fix to inform.
"#2: The mimic boss"
I have to agree here and even throw some additional mentions.
The list of weapons you can use on the boss tends to be shorter than expected, especially when you take out bombs and even most guns out of the equation. From what I've checked into as well, Brandish and Trokia Charges can do some damage too, but not fully because of the tentacles blocking. In fact, when I used an alt that had an Arcana and Glacius, I actually got STUCK in the tentacle that appears upfront and couldn't escape/move at all unless I destroyed it. Had to use more than 1 Spark of Life because of nonsense like that, which makes me wish they were treated more-so like regular enemies than objects/walls in hitboxes.
Plus not only will it kill bombs, but kill bullets 100%: Every time I used my Arcana, it would block it no matter where and what angle I would shoot it from if I were to try to shoot the boss directly. I wouldn't have such a problem if it only did 50% chance, or better, none. And when you do take down the tentacles with a gun, they pop RIGHT back up in less than 3 seconds. Both Non-piercing Guns and overall Bombs are pointless to it.
"#3: The rewards for beating the Vault"
The trinket situation is fine since it is a hard-to-nab item, but for sure payout is too low in comparison to other levels.
From my multiple runs, my "best" run payout-wise was with 1,496 Crowns, 1 Eternal Orb, 4 Slime Coins, and 18 Shining Crystals on Depth 20 written in a text document on the side. I don't ever recall hitting past 2,000 Crowns on any run I've experienced, which is super underwhelming for a difficult level. If it was 2k+ as a base level, along with dropping 10+ Slime Coins in any tier, then I'd probably have a reason to farm Treasure Vaults more. In fact, I wouldn't mind if the boss dropped 5 Slime Coins and every box in the boss area included 1 Slime Coin! For sure fix the reward for the risk.
"#4: Some of the obstacles on the pathway part it’s a bit too much"
I actually have a few MP4s on how to go across multiple razor areas, both with and w/o Movement Speed Increase Very High. They're not too hard to get across with some examination and patience, but they can be a bit of a pain when it comes to having to use your shield at times. I've gone across them mostly with a Drakon or Maskeraith so a specific Battle Sprite ain't necessary.
--- Breakaway for add-ons that can be applied and improve Treasure Vault ---
THE MOST IMPORTANT NOTICE: Having a Danger Module/Monstrous Codex at the start of the level before leaving the Arsenal area.
I've noticed this heavily every time I travel into Treasure Vault, which makes me worry for inexperienced/newer players that continue with the level and regretting not taking the elevator down instead of wasting their time at the start. Would be super nice to have one placed down as a warning at the very least.
Change up the Monster Garages you encounter before the boss
- Have the Glop Drops drop some loot, or at the very least health, as a way to start the level fresh before fighting the Mimic. They're already at a limited spawn per Garage beforehand like regular enemies instead of infinitely.
- Have them spawn out like waves instead of all at once and slowly emptying. That way, it doesn't cause players to be overwhelmed at times. The first wave would have regular Glop Drops and then 2nd wave with Drops that have Status applied from the level theme.
Have more overall loot/health gain back to appear in the depth
- The idea of a few Treasure Boxes within some starting areas, hidden behind arches and columns, is SO clever that I wish it was implemented more throughout the level either behind more objects or by pressing secret switches/hitboxes. A great example would be to add loot in Lockers/Cabinets just like the Compounds, which swing open and drops Crowns. In fact, I would absolutely LOVE IT if that Lottery Drum, where you can pick up a Heavy Statue and place near the Vault Entrance, had a number on the bottom/side that gave a chance to drop a certain amount of crowns like an actual Raffle.
- Having A Slime Casino Lottery Machine that hands out either rarities or purely Crowns would be nice after defeating the Treasure Mimic for a nice bonus. You'll feel more of a payout, especially as a newer player.
- Placing Healing Pads either before the mid-point Party Button or after clearing Razor areas. This isn't necessary, but it can be a nice addition to consider.
I might add more things here, but definitely, some changes would be needed.
Sat, 04/17/2021 - 22:22
#4
@Spring-At-Peace
I really like the idea of a lottery machine type of thing. However, to keep with the vault theme, maybe it could be a special side vault with a combination lock consisting of a few switches. If you hit the correct combination on the switches, it unlocks the vault. If you enter the wrong combination, it remains locked forever (i.e. you only get one attempt per level).
A lottery machine would be cool too, though.
1) git gud
2) yeah u need winter grave or blitz for boss
3) agreed, was really hoping for some secret interaction room on the far sides of the boss arena room, loot was very underwhelming
4) git gud