Remove the chance to set yourself on fire from Fang of Vog
The Fang of Vog could be a really cool weapon. The only sword from the Calibur line to be actually useful due to dealing elemental damage as opposed to normal and could be a viable alternative to the Brandish line swords. The only problem is: You set yourself on fire when using the charge attack. Which even with stacked up fire protection is at least 2 ticks of fire damage. This is just bad.
The Calibur line charge attack is already very situational as it requires you to be very close to the enemy, which often risks receiving damage. 99% of people would just go with Combuster over Fang of Vog for this very reason. The additional penalty of being set on fire doesn't help in the slightest. Not to mention FoV actually deals less damage with regular strikes than Combuster does. I've only seen FoV be used once by someone else in all my games. Removing the penalty and possibly buffing the damage would make it at least a little bit worth those 40 Almirian Seals.

It is sad that FoV does not see much use, but the restrictions on it are there for multiple reasons. For one it is basically a free 5* weapon handed to you just from playing the game since it is a token weapon. Sure you could argue all the bosses have some form of token item so why would FoV be treated any differently, but it's the fact that FoV is 5* outright while the others must be upgraded. I think it is fair from a design perspective that FoV should be interesting but have its own drawbacks too.
FoV also has nearly the strongest charge attack on a sword, falling just 17 damage short of a 5 explosion Acheron charge, but FoV also comes with an extra 350-600 damage from the strong fire it inflicts. I find it odd that you list caliburs needing to get close as the main downside to the weapons, as the biggest reasons caliburs don't get used is their mixture of no elemental line and sporadic knockback patterns due to hitting all around them. FoV doesn't really have these issues since it is elemental and anything (including bosses) hit by the charge attack usually just outright dies due to the high condensed damage it does. In fact, FoV already has some niche use cases due to how consistently it can deal with problems where other weapons cannot (ice palace comes to mind). Not to mention that enemies weak to elemental also tend to be prime targets for FoV charge, with zombies and the entire construct class getting wasted by it. The fear of getting close basically only applies to kats.
With those things in mind, I do agree it should be buffed a bit. It would be nice if its basic attacks were upgraded to brandish levels of damage, since it already has the drawback of slower attack speed. I also agree with the above change that the self-fire should be reduced to moderate so you can eventually become immune to it. Removing the self-fire entirely is getting a bit overzealous. This is essentially turning the weapon into an elemental blitz needle due to how effective and easy its charge attack is to actually land against priority targets. I personally do not think FoV, or any weapon for that matter, should be as viable as a brandish, but that's mostly due to brandishes being overpowered which is a different topic entirely. I would however like to see FoV be in a usable state where I can bring mine out and not feel like I'm being an active detriment to my team for using it, similar in viability to the sealed swords and status flourish lines.
Although FoV not being that good of a weapon, and needing that buff, I feel it would sadly throw away it's risk-reward/glass cannon gimmick that makes it unique.
I would perhaps substitute the fire by actually hurting yourself every time you charge (1 or 2 hearts), and making it so the universal damage bonus comes included with it, thus justifing its slow attack speed and incentivize defensive armors. This would honestly buff the FoV without being too good compared to Combuster, and would also give you more variety of armors to use with weapon aside from Vog Cub and Armor of the Fallen, that seem to be the only ones that complement this weapon pretty well (because of the ASI).
the self-fire is one of the only interesting weapon mechanics this game has to offer and you guys want to remove it or become immune to it

@Zinc
Pls post a valid argument
thx
Mechanics directly resulting from the self-fire:
* The self-fire ticks will reset your charge time meter to half, so timing it right can speed up charge time, but timing it wrong can slow you down.
* Fire ticks can be avoided by dashing at the right time.
* Multiple charges in quick succession can overwrite the previous fire timer, resulting in fewer fire ticks per charge. The first tick is unavoidable, the 2nd tick will hit before the charge completes, but the 3rd tick will be replaced by the 2nd charge's self-fire (if it triggers).
* Self-fire can help to prevent the freeze status.
* Damage bonus against monster family (UV/Ability/Perk) is useful to avoid increasing damage from self-inflicted fire.
* Fire damage breakpoints and the previous point that monster family bonus is actually useful allows you to think about how to build your loadout. +6 is basically the minimum required fire resistance and more is always better, but you also want to achieve max damage bonus and preferably monster specific to reduce the damage from the self fire. The main monster families to fight are Undead, Construct and Slimes. Devilites are probably better dealt with using other weapons, but other Fiends make good targets, especially Trojans which are often present in Undead levels. Next are Gremlins, because they are often paired with Constructs. Beasts are the least important type to cover.
- Useful Trinkets: Penta (+6 hp), Somn Totem (+1 MSI), Grand Solstice Ring (+1 fire, +4 hp, +1 freeze), Daybreaker Band (+1 hp, +1 ctr, +1 slime), Soaking Wetstone Pendant (+2 fire), Sword Focus, Slash Module
- Pet perks: Hot-Blooded, Swift Steps, Monster damage bonus
BKC Fire max + BKR Fire max + Grand Solstice Rings gets to +6 fire resist which is the breakpoint to get to 3 fire ticks. Dashing to avoid 1 of the 3 ticks per charge can probably make it work.
- BKC + Vog cub coat Fire max + GSR's = +8 fire. A high monster UV on the FoV can combine with a pet perk to get max damage against 2 monster families.
- Volc demo, volc salamander, volc plate mail, vog cub, fallen set and divine veil with a fire max UV (= +8) can be combined with a BK piece to get to +6, with a fire max on BK it gets to +10.
- Snarbolax, Skolver, Virulisk, Silvermail, Deadshot can be used when they have a fire max UV.
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The above is basically a copypaste from a page I made on wiki at: https://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Waterbeat/Fang_of_vog.
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I understand when all you know is black kat + combuster, the FoV seems like a bad weapon, but that's because combuster is stupidly simple to use and black kat is overpowered (mostly the MSI part). Your argument that Combuster outclasses FoV really doesn't make sense. Name a sword that Combuster doesn't outclass. In fact the only swords that are somewhat a match for Brandishes are Warmaster Rocket Hammer and... Fang of Vog. Combuster is just always a good choice and even if against certain enemies/environments WRH or FoV may be stronger, its range and safety make it better as a general purpose sword (e.g. WRH has difficulty competing for DPS when floor traps prevent you from getting close to zombies, while combuster can spam a few charges at them to clean up). Calibur/Cutter/Sealed Sword/Troika/Flourish are a lot worse against most enemies.
What you should really be arguing for is a nerf to brandishes. But given how unlikely that is to be well-received by the community (the majority of which are brandish users), perhaps if you wanted to buff anything about FoV it would be to bring the regular attack speed up to brandish attack speed. That way it would feel better to use and help to balance out the charge/regular attacks on FoV.
If you want me to be entirely honest: I just want a calibur-like sword that's a 1:1 alternative to the brandish line. No weird gimmicks, no needs for special loadouts that would give me resistance, no unnecessary timing of dodges to not get hurt. A boring sword that's just brandish with calibur charge. Nothing less, nothing more. And that's what I wish Fang of Vog was. I simply like the spinny whirly charge and I wish I could use it without being punished with either super weak damage or heavy limitations to my loadout or weird gimmicks to avoid taking damage whenever I use it.

Fang of Vog (FoV) is an impractically powerful weapon.
Powerful, because of its devastatingly strong omnidirectional charged attack.
Impractical, because of its short-ranged charged attack -AND- a significant chance of setting yourself on strong fire.
Even if you have Fire Resist Maximum on both of your gear, you will still be hit for big damage if and when the *STRONG* fire effect kicks in. If you have neither Fire Resist Maximum on both of your gear nor Remedy Capsule, then the chances are that you are most likely going to die.
In my opinion, I think the negatives of FoV far outweigh its positives. If you are of the same mindset and you feel that a small change should be in order to better balance FoV, then ... don't bother. FoV will stay as is. Changes to the game mechanic or rebalancing of gear will not happen because Grey Haven doesn't care. They are perfectly content to let this game fade to stagnant obscurity as long as players continue to pour $$$ into those event boxes until the day comes for GH to shut down this game permanently.
I use FoV in Vanaduke runs myself and I am quite experienced with the weapon, so I'd like to post my own arguments here too, mostly to add up or contradict some of the arguments made by Zinc.
In case somebody wants to know what gear I use so they know what I talk about:
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Perfect mask of Seerus
Vog Cub Coat (Fire resistance medium UV)
SSB for shield
DMG Bonus on swords trinket
CTR Bonus on swords trinket
and for weapons
FoV with ASI H UV
Plague Needle with ASI M UV
Electron Vortex with CTR M UV
Triglav with CTR M UV
all leveled up to level 10 of course
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1. Self fire resets your charge to half metter and *technically* makes it charge faster, however, for chain charging (using the charge over and over again non-stop), it is actually slower, due the second tick of fire taking too long for it to actually be faster than chaincharging a Combuster, and too short for you to be able to charge before an other tick happens, unless you have CTR MAX which is not that easy to achive while having some DMG bonuses. It can be useful if you have a weapon with a very slow charge time that can actually use that speed up process, but the only weapon that comes to mind for me is Gran Faust, and unless you have a deathwish, you don't wanna use it's charge attack.
2. Yep! Dashing can evade one single tick of fire damage, which is useful, but you are using something that has 8 seconds of cooldown for something that deals about 2 hearts of damage (with max fire resistance that is), when you can save it to instead evade certain attacks that can hurt much more than that or reposition yourself. Of course, you can always pull out the argument of "don't get hit lol", but lets be real, that isn't really a good argument, because nobody can dodge enemies forever in scenarios like SL, D&N or FSC (unless you are a bot or something idk), specially considering that this weapon makes you be up-close and personal to the enemies.
3. Charges in quick succession overriting the other fire ticks and avoiding freeze status with fire are honestly balid arguments, I guess the only thing I can say about this is that it's also playable to enemies, which you can use in your adventage in one way or the other I guess.
4. Most of the builds you present are slightly unpractical due the need of UVs, which can cost a ton of money (specially MAX ones), and they are not as versatile and cheap as Chaos set + Combuster + Blitz, which is what most people will use because meta exists.
5. This is more like a recomendation: Since I see that you seem to like the idea to embrace the self fire mechanic, why don't be fully embrace it by giving FoV a faster charge? Similar to Dread Venom Striker. I think this would increase it's DPS slightly without having to change the damage values themselves and it would kinda justify the slower attack speed on it's basic attacks.
6. "What you should really be arguing for is a nerf to brandishes.". Well... Yes and no. Yes because Brandishes are sometimes too reliable for their own sake, and no because nerfing something is almost always disapointing for players, unless the nerf actually reworks the weapon to be more fun to use. My recomendation is to buff the weapons that are outclassed by this one instead of nerfing it, because this would make less of an inpact on the players and more on the game's balance. (I hope I explained myself properly there).
Sorry for bad grammar btw.
1. The first thing I want to say is that none of my bullet points in previous post were meant as an argument to somehow prove FoV was more effective than Combuster or other weapons. So yes chaincharging a Combuster is easier and the fire ticks don't make fang of vog chaincharging faster than combuster. My point is that the fire ticks allow for tricks with the charging mechanic which gives the weapon more depth. You won't find us discussing Combuster charges because there is nothing special about them, it's click hold release on repeat and that's it. I don't mind that some weapons are simpler to use than others, I mind the suggestion that we should dumb down the more interesting ones. As for how to take advantage of this mechanic, it is indeed not going to work by chaincharging any FoV. You have to find out which levels of CTR and ASI work well. As an example: my FoV has asi vh + ctr high uv and I tend to use a vog coat which brings me to ASI max + CTR Ultra. This particular setup of asi and ctr allows me to release a charge, chain 2 auto attacks (which will be 2nd and 3rd hit of the combo, the charge counts as the first hit, so the last hit deals more dmg) and then chain a charge and it works out perfectly so that the 2nd fire tick will hit me as soon as the charge is started, cutting down my charge time in half. I am certain there are other combinations of ASI+CTR that will make it equally convenient to combo chain like that. You need to find out which combos work for your setup, so that you can alternate between ideas depending on the situation.
2. I am merely informing of the possibility of dashing to avoid a fire tick. This comes back to knowing your options in terms of combos with FoV so that you can pick the best combo for each situation. In a simple fight you will definitely use the dash to dodge fire ticks because you want to preserve health while still being able to charge in order to mop up quickly and move on (e.g. hallway fights).
3. /
4. Yes, I listed all of the gear options that have some synergy with FoV. Not all of them are practical. But the thing is half of those armors are useless and are never used by anyone in the game in the first place. At least Fang of Vog is unique enough of a weapon so that monster damage bonuses are actually objectively useful with it. Is it practical to make a fire max loadout for every monster family for the average player? No way. But at least the self-fire allows the player to think about that. With a combuster there is no reason to even consider those armors because universal damage bonus is just plain better and easier to get. With a fang of vog it is still practically speaking more likely that you will need some sort of universal damage bonus in your loadout, but if you had the ability to get any UV you wanted, gears with monster damage bonus and max fire resist would be optimal for FoV. It's not about what is best, the point is that the self-fire allows for these ideas. If the game had more such interactions, monster damage bonus (and all those forgotten pieces of armor) would potentially not be useless. (That said, nothing will compete with black kat because of the MSI, which is the biggest problem with that armor set. But that's another topic.)
5. FoV already charges quickly and most of its power is already in the charge. I don't think that would be a good change (I personally don't think the FoV needs a change at all). If you really wanted to buff it somehow, I think you should give slightly more power to the normal attacks, preferably by increasing the base speed to make it feel less clunky. In general it is a good idea to try and balance weapons between charge and regular attack because it spreads out the value of UVs. Part of the reason why UVs are so expensive for newer players is because of the bad gear balancing. If all the power is poured into the charge attack, then ASI UVs lose their value. If Universal damage wasn't so darn easy to get, monster damage UVs would be more valuable, especially on a weapon like FoV that has the self-fire. Imagine a game where more weapons benefitted from monster specific damage bonus like FoV does. suddenly a lot more UV rolls become valuable, meaning more people will try going for them, creating a bigger UV market allowing to more easily find a particular UV, which in turn makes it easier to complete a loadout set.
Instead what we have is Black Kat armor which creates an impossible environment for other armors to compete due to the basically unique MSI it has. Even if you got a stacked Snarbolax set with 3 max UVs it can't compete with Black kat because you simply don't run as fast. Instead what we have is levels like dreams and nightmares where there's basically no status (voiding the weakness of Black Kat) and all damage types (making it impossible to spec heavily into defense) and 5 different monster families (increasing the value of universal damage bonus). This rules out most of the potential for specialist loadouts, and ruins the value of specialist UVs like monster damage UVs, defense increase UVs, as well as most armors without MSI. This makes the UV market for those UVs and UVs on those armors/weapons non-existent, which in turn makes it impossible for 1 person to craft those specialised loadouts.
Now compare that to a Spiral Knights world where there are many more levels like Legion of almire (almost exclusively shadow damage, undead enemies), Ice queen (mainly piercing/normal + freeze, 1 enemy type slimes), FSC (shadow+fire, undead enemies) where you can heavily specialise a loadout against the level. There is also no MSI loadout that makes all other loadouts redundant. And FoV is the best weapon and everyone uses it. In that world, you would have people using fire max snarbolax FoV, but also fire max silvermail + deadshot chapeau to kill undead equally well while taking less fire damage. You would have people using vog cub set and get their damage bonus from an undead high UV on their FoV and a undead high sprite perk to max out against undeads. Fang of Vogs with undead/slime VH would be useful to the vog cub guy, Fang of Vogs with ASI would be useful to the silvermail+deadshot guy. The UV market is booming because more rolls have value (since levels allow players to specialise), and the increased supply of UVs allows theoretically decent loadouts to become practical (read: not impossible to acquire), which in turn increases the demand.
6. I know what you mean. That's what I said in my post, the community would cry if their brandishes got nerfed. If you want to buff the weapons that are outclassed by them you will have to buff basically every other sword (and FoV would be last with WRH on the list of swords that need a buff). The game is already easy enough with brandishes. It just leads to more power creep that you then in turn can't undo. So yes, a nerf to brandishes won't happen, and if it did the forums would cry for a revert as usual. So I argue that it shouldn't happen. My point was that just because Combuster is easier to use in general doesn't mean that FoV needs a buff, and certainly not by dumbing down FoV to Combuster's standards of a mindless charge spam weapon. Combuster is great as a starter weapon for newer players who have just their Chaos set+Combuster+Blitz needle, as well as a long term option for veterans. Fang of Vog is great the way it is as an endgame weapon for veterans who can afford the UVs that you need in order to make a FoV loadout work. If anything needs a buff it is the actually bad weapons like Troikas.
Agreed, Combuster outclasses FoV in every way, both normal attacks and charge attacks. Sux cause FoV is such a cool sword
I was thinking the FoV self fire 🔥 could be reduced from Strong to Moderate - this way you would still need +9 fire resistance to be immune, but it would help make the FoV viable vs. Combuster
Combuster would still outclass the FoV even with this change, but at least the FoV would be a fun alternative