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Returning Player Questions

12 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/25/2025 - 13:05
Hengrik's picture
Hengrik

Hello! It’s been so long.

I'm a returning player… or at least trying to be. Java is giving me a virtual machine error or something, and I'm still trying to fix it.

Anyway, I have around 1k hours in this game. I used to love it, but it kind of died after the lack of updates and the Free Elevator update, if I recall correctly.

That said, I still feel a lot of nostalgia and would like to give it another shot. But I’ve been watching YouTube and reading some forums, and a few things still worry me. I’ll number them here:

1. Is Normal damage still okay?
I used to run it all the time back when the Arcade required mineral collecting, and before the equipment terminals were added before each level. It was a jack-of-all-trades: never amazing, never bad. Since you couldn’t swap your loadout until a checkpoint (if I remember correctly), I always used Normal so I didn’t have to worry too much about equipment.
To be honest, I never had the crowns to buy enough loadout slots, so that was another reason.
That said, I still see elemental/shadow weapons outperforming Normal ones even against enemies that aren’t weak or resistant to them. For example, I would expect the Leviathan Blade to deal better damage against Constructs than Acheron, but that doesn’t seem to be the case (maybe I’m wrong—please correct me if so). I wonder if the devs (if they even maintain the game anymore…) will ever adjust this.
I’m not saying Normal is bad, or that I want it to better than everything else. I’ll still run my old reliable Leviathan. I’m just curious.

2. Are there any plans to make the game less grindy?
Ever since Fire Crystals were introduced, leveling weapons became a chore. It’s not very fun and it slows the game down so much…

3. New content being added mostly through lootboxes…
I don’t think lootboxes are necessarily bad, but I miss going out of my way in the Arcade to find Basil and buy stuff from him. Do I want the Hall of Heroes gone? No… but you get the point.

4. Classes?
I don’t mean locking players into classes—the magic of the game is combining gear. But ever since the beginning, I always see the same sets: Wolvers, Chaos, and more recently Gunners. Almost never Bombers or Guardians.
Are there any plans to make Guardian sets more viable? I own some, I use them, and I like them. I’m not asking for a tank role (I don’t think it fits the game too well… unless?), but I would love to see them perform the role the game advertises: pulling some aggro and protecting the team in their own way. I think it’s possible, just not with the current tools.
Personally I think the Plate line could use improvements. If the armor is really meant to make you tanky, then bump up those numbers. As it is now, the only enemy in T3 you can effectively tank is a Trojan—you can take both body and shield hits and it will still take ages for him to kill you as he only deals normal damage.(Somewhat).

5. Jesus, the UI.
I don’t mind the look: I actually like it. I mean the information. Can we see numbers? The defense bars seem to be meant to simplify stats for players, but in the end they just make me wonder how much damage a weapon actually does.
For example, if you compare Azure Guardian Armor with Skolver Coat, they look the same in-game, but on the wiki Azure has slightly higher Normal defense. (This isn’t a defense of Azure; I like it, but I know nobody uses it for that reason—it's just too plain as an armor set.)
I’d really like to see those numbers displayed in-game.

6. Do people still run the Arcade? When I left, every mission was just Vana runs, and it got pretty boring… I like the mission system—I don’t want it removed—but the Arcade used to be so fun. I still remember the arenas, the towns (which honestly should’ve been just as relevant as the main Haven hub, with auction houses and everything), and that guy at the door telling me “you’re not strong enough to continue, noob.” I really miss that. But every time I entered the Arcade near the end, it felt like a ghost town.

Edit: changed some numbers on the list, i messed them up.

Anyway, thx for reading and sorry for the lenght. I hope the best for this game, see ya!

Tue, 11/25/2025 - 14:58
#1
Kavsta's picture
Kavsta
I can count

3. Chaos is the second best set behind black kat, but is used as you dont need CTR on weapons; good for cost.
4. Still no clue about the defense bars
1. JVM machine error you gotta download java
1.5 Brandish lines are superior
2. Games still pretty grindy, nothing changes in that aspect
5. People run the arcade for fun and for recipes though most are just haven sitters (me included)

Tue, 11/25/2025 - 16:04
#2
Zhaleor
Let's see...

1. Normal damage is just fine.
Some elitists may discourage you, but you can totally use only normal damage weapons and do not much worse than those with "proper" equipment. Feel free to use amputator instead of other brandishes, pepperbox instead of blitz/repeater, valiance instead of arcana/riftlocker/phantamos, and iron slug is actually more useful than callahan or winter grave. Some normal weapons (troika, calibur, blast bomb to name a few) are kind of bad, but not primarily because of their damage type.

2. Probably the opposite, considering the recent heart pendant nerf.
Upgrading weapons is still fine-ish though, since you can grind over a rad a minute in DaN and eternal orbs are now essentially free. A bit of a pain, but it is doable.

5. Most vanguards seem to just grind FSC endlessly, but arcade is still being played.
I personally do arcade runs more often than FSC runs and a good gate can easily get you as many radiants as a FSC run.

Tue, 11/25/2025 - 16:31
#3
Hengrik's picture
Hengrik
Pendant Nerf?

What did they do to the pendant? it was my favorite trinket.... shame

I assume that with DaN you mean Dreams and Nightmares, correct? If so... I didn't even know you could get that many crystals there, good to know. But eternals being free? what do you mean? did the price on energy exchange went down or something?

On a last note, the last thing i was setting myself to doing was getting a brandish with a high UV vs slime to max out amputator eventually, I like doing that stuff, pretty fun. I have a Cold Iron Vanquisher with Maximum damage bonus, and it's pretty good (Despite Levy doing better with just a very high uv, i know)

Tue, 11/25/2025 - 17:07
#4
Zhaleor
All craftable heart pendants (so not TLL) lost one hp and star.

Yes, dreams and nightmares. Eternal orbs are essentially free because you get them MUCH faster than radiants, I would guess around half a dozen times as fast (proportionally to how many you need per item), so unless you craft a LOT of non-weapon items you will still be limited by radiants.

Wed, 11/26/2025 - 09:47
#5
Everest-Wintersky
1, 4 & 6

Normal damage isn't "bad", some weapons are just stronger.

I have seen a few bombers but never a guardian (or striker for that matter), I once bought some guardian gear for solo runs but found Black Kat to be far more practical. Solving this would mean a significant overhaul of equipment. (A 5* sword with the random effect of sealed would sell normal and guardians as feasible to me though)

I do still run and see arcade lobbies but not often. The danger prestige missions are still run with full lobbies and feel less grindy because of the 1 completion per day and the rotation each day.

Fri, 11/28/2025 - 07:03
#6
Bopp's picture
Bopp
my two cents

1. Normal damage has the same value that it always has always had. It works on everything, but specialized damage is better. Maybe there's one exception to note: Since the 2014 gunner update, the Magnus-line charge attacks have been so powerful, that you might as well charge Iron Slug rather than the theoretically better Callahan and Winter Grave.

2. The only big grind is for Radiant Fire Crystals. I have not heard of any plans to reduce that grind. The game has seen small improvements recently (thanks, Grey Havens), but you should not expect massive content expansion.

3. I'm not sure that I get your point. You want new weapons and armor? See 2. Or you want a more exciting after-market for recipes? That would require more new players.

4. Bombing is popular. Its popularity might decline, if more players are forced to play alone, because of general decline in player base. I have not heard of any plan to re-balance armor and damage, to make defense more important. That would be a huge change to the game design.

5. The statistics displayed on armor and weapons have been buggy, or at least difficult to understand, since the launch of the game in 2011.

6. I run the Arcade regularly. I haven't run FSC in years.

Tue, 12/02/2025 - 15:25
#7
Hengrik's picture
Hengrik
Point 3 Clarifitation

What i'm trying to say here is that, lootboxes are the only "new" form of content I see being added in terms of cosmetics. Maybe a weapon or armor here and there, or reskins for that matter.

If i recall correctly, the Mix Master and Orbit Gun were addded this way, since there is no recipe that i know of or equivalent with a different damage type or something. You can grab them from the Action Hall but come on... 2 million crowns? i understand why, I know this game revolves around money and market a lot, and that's okay. But as it is right now, the old ways, mainly the Arcade, aside from offering some exclusive recipies for armor that barely anyone uses, does not offer anything else.

What I'm trying to justify is, maybe, hopefuly, that Arcade players can get/craft/find someway of self expresion. That could be maybe craft unique accesories, trinckets, or cosmetics, just like lockdown players get their exclusive trinckets.

What I’m suggesting isn’t necessarily what should happen; I could be talking nonsense from a balancing standpoint. But the point is, Arcade needs some love because it’s still very fun and also the gateway for new players. When a new player — or even a returning player like me — walks in and sees veterans with amazing weapons, they get excited for the future, only to end up disappointed when they realize that the item they want is locked behind something probably unattainable.

I do not expect new content added really, it would be cool but I don't think that is the priority honestly. In my very humble opinion, the focus should be in just working on what it's already there. I don't know the inner works of the game's code, but if i'm completly honest, and being a designer myself, I do see a way thar this game can be massively improved in the way many people want just by changing a few numbers or practices.

That said, it's not a big issue, so it can be left alone. But it could be something the developers could/should look up. I would cernatainly do. But hey... I'm not Nick, so idk for sure what he would have wanted for the game as it currently stands, despite leaving years ago.

PD: Thank you all for the kind responses, I'm currently back to playing! Yay!.... and the game handed me a True Love Trincket on my most recent expedition on the Arcade as a welcome back gift... what a day

Fri, 12/19/2025 - 17:10
#8
Cleaver's picture
Cleaver
Developer
Hey, to a few of your

Hey, to a few of your points:

- We have been focused on Loot Boxes for cosmetics, not least because buyers shed dupes into the auction house where (I assume, I am not presently watching the auction house but I am thinking about running some analyses) non-box/energy buyers can pick them up for (ugh sometimes 2M) crowns?

- We are definitely going to ship some free drop cosmetics and other content in 2026, tis a priority for me, I don't like loot boxes but they have allowed the game to stay online. It's expensive and time consuming to make new content so we can't promise much, yet, but we have two senior (OG Three Rings founding team) artists working full-time on SK.

- I prefer the Arcade to Missions. Never liked Missions much, either, it was added with Heat (and uh Boxes) to ahem optimize the game in SEGA's era ('Get SK to make more money (but also waste your devs time with bad i18n deals' was most of what anyone said to me from SEGA during that period, I was not very happy.) I would like people to do random arcades too so let's see how best to do that.

- Agreed on focusing on improving what's there (and releasing some of it, like Super Brawl)

- We are open to suggestions for numbers and practices. Some rebalancing is long overdue.

Welcome back.

Sat, 12/20/2025 - 13:00
#9
Ortonsocket
I loved pre-Sega SK, but

I loved pre-Sega SK, but struggle to get back into the current incarnation.

My biggest complaint is the power dip when upgrading 4* and 5* combined with the crystal requirement. Optimal play is to hold off on upgrading to 5* until I've stockpiled enough crystals to heat it to parity with the 4* level 10. But that feels bad because I'm not making numbers go up.

I also have some hesitations with the forging process. The chance at failure feels bad, but the $16 worth of crystals to level a 5* to 10 with 100% odds also feels bad. And the cost of the "cheap" option being 50% more expensive than the top option once you account for odds is a scam. It should be strictly pay more to get more.

Oddly enough, I miss the exponentially increasing revive costs. It had a certain gamblers thrill that the sparks don't provide. Plus it provided a sense of danger. The throw-away cost of sparks removes the consequences. Putting these together makes the danger rooms feel extra dangerous.

Finally, I miss the original item icons. The 3D + toon shader look clashes with the rest of the art.

Sat, 12/20/2025 - 14:21
#10
Fallen-Feces's picture
Fallen-Feces
stuff

I personally don't care that much about the loot boxes as long as they don't affect gameplay and unfortunately the game factually just isn't at that point. I imagine it's pretty hectic to try and control an economy without suplexing the entire thing every time it goes a little too far in some way.

Right now, there exist things like mixmasters, orbit guns (or any equinox weapon), and wands which are all unique weapons that only come from lootboxes. For the mixers and orbit guns specifically, asking prices typically go for multiple hundreds of real life dollars worth of energy. Wands are less crazy, but afaik someone looking to buy one now would still have to spend like $50 if they didn't want to spend weeks grinding crowns to get one. We also have a good handful of shields that have unique resistances from anything else in the game.

Splitting off from prize boxes specifically, there are still more pieces of unique equipment that are unbearably hard to get without paying some serious, tangible cash. Somnambulist Totems come to mind first. Each one goes for over 10 million crowns (I don't know how much in energy that is but it's at least more than $400), and you currently need 2 of them to reach maximum movement speed bonuses. These can only be very rarely dropped from slime lockboxes which already cost 75k crowns to open each time. Next we have the Black Kat event as a whole. Kat Books are such a rare drop that they go for at least $50 last I checked, and a whole entire boss fight is locked behind them. Not only that, but you need to kill that boss a good number of times to make a 5* kat armor.

I think resolving these issues would be a HUGE step in improving the game's monetization. I understand very well that the game needs to make money somehow for any of us to have the luxury of continuing to play it, but I really can't imagine allowing these kinds of egregious prices to exist is essential to achieving that and I really hope to see these kinds of unique equipment made more accessible to the average F2P player.

Mon, 12/22/2025 - 06:58
#11
Hatn's picture
Hatn

@Cleaver
"We have been focused on Loot Boxes for cosmetics, not least because buyers shed dupes into the auction house where (I assume, I am not presently watching the auction house but I am thinking about running some analyses) non-box/energy buyers can pick them up for (ugh sometimes 2M) crowns?"

To save you the trouble, from my understanding, players who throw "excess" boxes onto the AH (or sell them via player trades) have been selling them for ~2-3ke (or 100-200kcr) for years now, the random prize boxes outside of that range is due to it being a rare promo box that hasn't been rereleased in such a long time (like Gremlin Prize Box). The main reasoning is not because they have "excess" boxes but because this is the best way a spender can get the most value for their money, as whaling on energy packs gives at best ~450e @ USD$1 whereas reselling a box gives ~713e - ~1070e @USD$1

If there were alternatives avenues a spender could take that would net them a good value for their money I am sure they'd use it but for now, for those that are aware, boxes have been the best way to accumulate energy/crowns through their respective currency.

@Fallen-Feces
Blame the supply/demand.

Before there was any hype for; Mixers/Orbitguns, Totems, worse Nova Drivers (wands) and mid non-Orbitgun equinox gear - the prices were very much affordable. If you'd like to blame an entity for the rapidly inflated price of said items please direct your blame towards the individuals capitalizing on the supply/demand of said items.

- Celestial Saber is just a Levi Blade with stun
- Celestial Shield has no normal damage so it's niche
- Celestial Vortex is a worse Electron Vortex
- Mixers used to be 20ke and now they're 450ke+ (you can thank player demand/greed for that)
- Orbitguns used to be below 100ke, shot up to 200ke due to the 0.5 -> 0.25 drop rate change, and now are being advertised by players for 220-250ke (you can thank player demand/greed for that)
- Totems used to be below 120ke in 2019 and then gradually inflated to 300ke+ (you can thank player demand/greed for that)
- Wands are just worse Nova Drivers... just use a Nova Driver...

If you just want the gear to be more accessible for the "average F2P" just so they can get a hold of it then I think that's fair but outside of Totems, they're definitely not a "must have" imho

Mon, 12/22/2025 - 11:38
#12
Fallen-Feces's picture
Fallen-Feces
My point wasn't really that

My point wasn't really that these items are particularly good (barring mixers/orbit gun obviously), but rather that they are unique things that average players will never get to play with. Yes, these prices are driven by players. People don't have to sell them for exorbitant prices, but the fault isn't solely on the players charging these prices. The prices are definitely influenced by the rarity of these items in the first place.

I think the mixer in specific is the only one here I can say is more of a result of player greed over past developer decisions. Admittedly, mixers had a shockingly high drop rate from their respective box (10% is pretty insane relative to other weapon drops). I don't have any data on how many people bought these boxes, but I'd wager something like that would lead to it selling well. Despite the good drop rate, it's now the most expensive item in the game at around $800 worth of energy.

After that, though, the rest of the things listed are definitely exacerbated by past dev decisions. Celestial weapons are housed in what's largely considered the worst prize box given that the thing usually just drops UV tickets. The box being particularly undesirable for gamblers to even try opening while still housing one of the best weapons in the game I'd wager contributes pretty heavily to the price of the orbit gun. These things were decided by devs, not players.

For totems, the wiki is pretty vague on the rates of these things but as far as I'm aware they're SUPER rare. Not only that, but iirc the prize wheels just outright stop dropping lockboxes once enough appear on the auction house. These rates were, again, a result of past dev decisions.

I actually forgot to mention this before, but there have even been instances of supply depot listings for items with absolutely insane prices such as the Silver Person Color (~100ke) or the hazardous hedge coat (~42ke).

As much as I hate seeing people ask for insane prices like these, I think it's unfair to place the blame mostly on the players. If I blew over $100 to get an orbit gun, I'm definitely not going to be selling that thing for cheap later down the road.

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