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GH, dont mind the most common complaints: theres a much bigger issue that loses you MUCH more profit ($$$)

15 replies [Last post]
Thu, 12/25/2025 - 21:52
Azuresh's picture
Azuresh

When people complain about something like balance, theyre almost always taking about the lategame, where the game genuinely plays pretty well and balance problems are relatively minor, and would be way pricier to fix. The *new player* experience is a much bigger problem:
Not only its genuinely the most 'unfun' part of the game, its by far the biggest impediment to SK's popularity and profits. Most people quit extremely early even if they would actually like the game, because the journey from 0* -> 4* gear is terrible compared to 5* gameplay:

-It starts out very slow and underwhelming: Charge attacks take extremely long, specially considering early game charge attacks are mostly just basic swings, and there are practically no sources of CTR in sight. You have little to no bonuses, and fight very slow and anemic enemies.

-Theres practically zero sources of interesting bonuses or progression to improve the gamefeel. Nearly all popular armor lines for newbies will have no perceptible difference between their 2* and 4* versions, or perhaps no bonuses at all, which makes it really unexciting. Theres not really any meaningful trinkets either, specially not one that makes a newbie consider spending 150e for slots. Early sprite skills are often nearly worthless without their ultimate upgrades. Almost all the early options with interesting buffs (ie: swiftstrike buckler) cant even be carried over into a *5 version. Sprite perks below 50 are no good either.

Im pretty sure most this could be easily improved with simple number changes. Make some early game weapons (ie: proto gear) charge faster, give players more sources of early buffs, make people see armor and shields as something other than something they need to pass Hall of Heroes... Some emphasis on giving a little bit of ASI and CTR as they are actually tangible gamefeel upgrades, unlike damage buffs.

And not only this would be much easier and cheaper to fix than lategame balance (for a much bigger increase in enjoyment), it would certainly be very meaningful for the profits, as it would make less new players drop it so early, so theres more players sticking around long enough to consider spending money. So please everyone, instead of screaming so much abouit brandishes, mixmasters, black kats and neutralizers... Lets have some emphasis on the early game instead, because its not only a much more realistic goal, it would probably put the game at a much better baseline for improving the balance of 5* gameplay.

Fri, 12/26/2025 - 06:29
#1
Leidran
Yeah the new player experience is very underwhelming

In a market as competitive and arguably oversaturated in terms of multiplayer games, the first hours of a game are the most important to be able to earn players, and the amount of friction Spiral Knights has there in both gamefeel and progression at the beginning of the game is massive.

While there isn't a lot of problems when going through Tier 1 missions in terms of progression, missions feel like a slog because enemies are extremely simple and their damage is so low dying is kinda impossible for those remotely competent at the game, and your offensive options are usually kinda boring overall, with little build variety overall, as you said yourself.

Tier 2 and 3 start to become interesting and challenging in terms of fighting mechanics and weaponry, but progression is now the extremely boring and slow part, with very little options to earn a meaningful amount of crowns outside of Jelly King and the occasional Arcade run, and while you get a handful of orbs of alchemy by completing missions, the game tends to be very stingy with them in both mission competition rewards and loot found among levels, specially so during the 3* to 4* phase.

The cobalt set and weapons you get for free as you progress through ranked missions are also very underwhelming and kinda trick players into making bad loadouts and having a bad time overall.

Honestly getting friends into the game is extremely hard when their first impression consists of multiple levels where you just swing your sword or shoot your gun mindlessly against enemies that barely fight back or do anything interesting during fights, and "it gets good later" doesn't work when they can pick any other game that's on their library or free to play and start to have a blast there instead.

Fri, 12/26/2025 - 06:36
#2
Spark-Of-Kill
Crafting

A good chunk of this also has to do with the crafting system. Particularly Alchemy Orbs, but also recipe acquisition could be tweaked. (Asking a midgame player for 50k crowns just to afford the recipes for their 4* gear is ridiculous)

Also In response to the first paragraph: The lategame "plays pretty well" when you're almost exclusively using the meta. This game's balancing is all over the place. The majority of armor sets suck, and only about half of the weapons are viable in endgame content. The earlygame is flawed, yes. And I agree that SKs progression needs a lot of attention, but that doesn't make the lategame fine.

As I write this I realize these are but two sides of the same coin. Very few armor sets are worth the time and resources to build into because of the lack offense bonuses (CTR, damage bonuses, ect). I understand you're primarily focusing on the lack of these bonuses on earlygame equipment. But still, this is an issue seen at every stage of the game, not just the beginning.

Sat, 12/27/2025 - 16:22
#3
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
Add the Companions to that mix

->

Sat, 12/27/2025 - 16:21
#4
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
Add the Companions to that mix

Add the leveling of the companions to that mix and see it freeze to absolute cero.

there is a game that I see like this one, Warframe (has differences Yes, has similarities also Yes) where You have to level gear and You can mix and match stuff, yes Spiral has So much to mix since the skills comes from the Companions... that takes Forever to level up... I get the need for a resource dump to avoid the price of things skyrocket, but slowing the progress to a halt doesn't help.

Even if NOT everyone will want to get one of Each item there is in the game and play mix and match on every level of the arcade, there is also no incentive to deviate from the Chaos 'tasteless' set, which became "meta" long ago (a clear sign that the game was going into hibernation mode, reduce the optimal option to one and You don't need man power to do balance checks on the game) when the Mad Bomber doesn't even get to be THE BOMBER 'glass cannon' set, WE have a problem.

The 'pets' act like a pest that chug materials to "level up", the sparks and the orbs that slow the speed at which You craft. This game overgrinds some aspect of what was a "grind a level and get to 'base' to do stuff type of game". This "extraction game" kinda sort of, sometimes feels dragged (probably intentional since wasn't actively developed) perhaps somethings will change and the game will Endorse variety of "builds" a.k.a. mix and match different weapons, armour, sprites.

Cheers thanks for reading.

Wed, 12/31/2025 - 14:12
#5
Bopp's picture
Bopp
some good points

The original poster makes some good points. I once introduced a gamer friend to Spiral Knights, and they were underwhelmed, specifically because the early fighting is so mindless and easy. There are some decent fights in the early missions (e.g. the Collector). But there's just too much time spent in Tier 1, where monsters are dull.

The reason, I think, is that Spiral Knights was originally designed for casual gamers, who are looking for relaxation rather than an intense test of twitchiness.

Wed, 12/31/2025 - 19:44
#6
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
bopp makes point

if Spiral Knights was originally designed for casual gamers, it would have been nice that the game didn't require the Slog of grind bound to the Sprites...

Thu, 01/01/2026 - 14:56
#7
Torquiose-Knight's picture
Torquiose-Knight
I know it doesn't add too much to the discussion but...

I do like how the Swiftstrike Buckler can be considered to still be used in lategame just for it's bonus. It's a 3-star equip that can be a part of someone's lategame build because of that. I think that's kind of neat to sprinkle equips around that way.

Sat, 01/03/2026 - 14:53
#8
Azuresh's picture
Azuresh
Re: Bopp (#5)

Easy and relaxed but engaging combat is really not mutually exclusive, specially in the current day. SK's early game feels far beyond being casual/relaxed and darts way too past into a very boring direction, even for people who arent really looking for a challenge. These days theres definitely waaaay tougher games that are considered casual, and i think the early game of SK could be so much more appealing to all sorts of players

I even recall myself being initially underwhelmed back when i was a much younger kid who sucked at games, the difference in quality from the early game to the late game is just immense

Sat, 02/14/2026 - 20:09
#9
Reydann's picture
Reydann
Agreed

Agree with OP's comments, I have personally introduced friends and they have not been impressed at all by the early experience.
They ended up quitting unfortunately.
I believe the current early game experience is worse than the old days when the mist system was present.

Sat, 02/14/2026 - 22:39
#10
Kim-Jung-Oink
+1

Agree with OP 100%. I sometimes forget about the new player experience... it's uh, yeah it's not good.

Wed, 02/18/2026 - 13:05
#11
Sorasallsin
I'm surprised the early game

I'm surprised the early game experince apparently got worse. What happened between then? Balance stuff?

Thu, 02/19/2026 - 14:00
#12
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
the early game got crystalized

Fire Crystals happen to early game, The orbs are good the, Crystal are horrendous. And Yet are some Apologist saying that they are not bad... They are.
So the fights sometimes feels way to sporadic and the rewards are not enough to upgrade Your weapons, and someone who clearly has No grip on reality will say: "Run the mission on Elite", to a new player... or "Get a Chaos an run Vanaduke" to someone with Squire Rank. That hinders the player progresion makes them feel that They have no agenda, no Choice... what ever they think is cool or cute is invalidated by the I have Thousand Hours in this game meta Chasers, that basically tell them You are having Fun wrong...
The missions help to stablished a line to follow, but the enemy density is somewhat off for lack of a better adjective, also sometimes players get stuck on the: "I need to Upgrade the Gear but orbs haven't fall" or "Not enough minera... erm... crystals", granted that Guilds help with new players BY playing with them. They usually get the same message from senior players: "buy it from the depot and skip the farm..." as if the Senior players would Know whats wrong and yet refuse to admit it.

Mon, 02/23/2026 - 21:59
#13
Corinthmaxwell's picture
Corinthmaxwell
Okay, then......let's break this down, one piece at a time. (01)

@Azuresh: The "journey", as you call it, is no different from any other currently-active and/or still-active MMO. Everyone has to go through it, everyone has to put up with it, and (almost) no one enjoys it. Consequently, having 5-star gear isn't all that much better since the introduction of the Forge system, because you have to go through just as much trouble to fully heat a 5-star item as you went through to get the materials, crowns, and Orbs of Alchemy to craft it.

In terms of "basic" charge attacks........their being as weak as they are for low-level gear is kind of the point. In terms of "bonuses" for progression through the game's "main story", you're given that via the ranked Mission rewards, many of which you'll be using to upgrade your first Battle Sprite. As for "popular armor lines", players will still have to progress through the game's story before they can actually use (much less obtain) the majority of them. The only really "useful trinkets" are the ones that you can obtain from PVP, and......well, while you have to participate in PVP to get the materials to craft them, most people are not only busy farming & grinding for better gear so that they aren't easily beaten in Lockdown matches, a good number of them have little to no interest in participating in Blast Network matches.

Regarding trinket slots -- a lot of users would prefer to be able to pay for them to be "permanently unlocked", so that the few trinkets they already have will have a bit more value to them. The Swiftstrike Buckler (and its re-skins) being locked at 3-star rank is, unfortunately, a deliberate decision, and I highly doubt that these shields will ever see 4-star and/or 5-star upgrades, much in the same manner that items like the Darkfang Shield will never become craftable, and that we very likely won't ever have a way to negate the "backfire" damage from the Fang of Vog's charge attack.

Unfortunately, many of the "improvements" that you suggest are things that players have had to work toward getting since the game's initial launch, and the ones who decided to "give up" because things were too difficult for them, clearly didn't want to take the time to put in any actual work at all. Believe it or not, this game would be a lot less fun for everyone if players just had everything "handed to them", with little to no effort for any of it.

@Leidran/@Sorasallsin: Things were considerably worse when you had to spend Energy in order to progress to the next floor of an Arcade Gate, upgrade any of your gear, or revive yourself if you died (a price that doubled each time you died on a single floor, and depending on which Tier you were in, got more & more expensive with each revival). Don't have enough Mist Energy? Better stock up on Crystal Energy, then. Don't have enough crowns to get Crystal Energy? Buy an Elevator Pass! Can't afford an Elevator Pass? Well then, that just means that you're done playing for the day. Prior to the removal of Mist Energy, players who either didn't have any Crystal Energy in reserve, or who couldn't afford to buy CE or Elevator Passes on a semi-regular basis, were basically "grounded" in terms of not being able to go any further into lower depths of the Clockworks. This, of course, was unless someone else in their party (assuming they were in a party) felt charitable enough to donate their own CE, to help pay the Elevator costs.

The introduction of Missions did away with all of that nonsense, and in order for those Energy requirements to be permanently removed, something had to be implemented as a suitable "replacement". Specifically, both the Alchemy & Heating systems were completely overhauled, and from that point onward, you had to obtain complete gear sets of a certain star rank in order to be "allowed" further entry into the lower depths of the Clockworks. The bigger problem with all of this was the August 21, 2013 update, which not only introduced the woefully unnecessary "Fire Crystal recipes" (they degrade Fire Crystals into their lower-rank versions instead of enhancing them into the higher-ranked ones), but which also decreased the drop rate of Radiant Fire Crystals in Tier 3's sixth stratum (floors 24-28). It was apparently "fixed" a few months later, but not significantly enough that players can reliably farm the Clockworks for Radiants instead of having to repeatedly farm "endgame" missions like "Champion Rank 9-3: The King of Ashes".

Mon, 02/23/2026 - 21:59
#14
Corinthmaxwell's picture
Corinthmaxwell
Okay, then......let's break this down, one piece at a time. (02)

@Spark-Of-Kill: Nearly all of the armor sets are in dire need of an overhaul, if only at least to give them proper "competitive advantages" against the other more popular helmet & armor sets. For example, any benefits that are granted by any of the non-event "free-to-play" armor sets (Skolver, Mad Bomber, Divine, etc.), or even the more difficult to obtain "freemium"/"freemium-adjacent" sets (Snarbolax, Mercurial Demo, etc.) are basically "outclassed" by the mere existence of the Chaos set, combined with a Swiftstrike Buckler. Going even further than that, the Chaos set itself has long since been outclassed by the event-exclusive Black Kat set.

@Jcyrano: As I've already stated, the Alchemy system overhaul & Forge system replaced the original Energy costs for upgrading gear. Unfortunately, the "best rewards" for Missions and Arcade gates are obtained by playing on Elite difficulty. The idea that older/"veteran" players insist upon farming "endgame" content at Squire rank, or "telling other players how they're supposed to have fun", is a bit erroneous. And to be quite honest, no one would recommend buying materials from the Supply Depot unless it were absolutely necessary.....in the majority of instances, it is most certainly not.

Tue, 02/24/2026 - 06:50
#15
Reydann's picture
Reydann
Very well articulated Conrinthmaxwell

I agree with the above, and even though the "new player experience" is very important and it would be awesome to see it improved, my 2 cents about the current state of the game remain the following:

- Priority 1: Buff arcade so people can have an alternative way to grind the game, people only farm 1 mission at the moment and it's a problem.
- Priority 2: Rework gear in general, people only use 1 set of gear at the moment and it's a shame since there are so many (visually) cool pieces of armor.
- Priority 3: More content

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