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Display an item's value during trades

7 replies [Last post]
Thu, 05/28/2026 - 08:12
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Some drama about "sharking" came up on reddit recently. "Sharking" is the act of bidding below and item's value and selling above the item's value, also known as "merchanting". The practical difference is in scale and behaving in good faith. The act is possible because the value of an item is unclear to players.

In the interest of players who may not use externals tools and sites, and may not want to or know to ask around the community for what an item may be worth, the game could simply tell them. I can think of two good ways to do this:

#1: An audit log

When hovering over an item, display everything gone into the item. How many orbs were used to craft it, how many crystals used to heat it, how many UV tickets were used to punch it, every time the weapons has been unbound before and whether the current owner did this or not. Tally up their total worth but show the breakdown. For instances, we do not want to count the energy cost of fire crystals since it's ridiculous to actually buy them, but the amount of rolls is quite valuable. Every time the item is traded from one player to another, add that trade to the audit log as well, noting what it was sold for. I believe all this data exists in the current Spiral Knights framework, but I'm not completely sure. This would be the most accurate and complete solution to the problem, in my opinon.

#2: An estimate

Since you, the developers, have access to all the internal values of the game, you can provide an estimate. First you add up the cost of enough orbs to craft the weapon or what it cost at the auction house. For something like the Kat Hat, you can simply note the expected amount of hours it takes to acquire one book, and for a Krogmo piece how long it's expected to grind the materials necessary to craft the item.

Next you can evaluate any UVs on the item. Since you know exactly how rare each UV is, you can simply divide the cost of a UV ticket with this rarity, then divide the cost of a double UV ticket for the rarity of the second UV and so on.

Add the cost of unbinding and there's your estimate.

You may also add warnings if a UV might be useless, ie Shadow Max on Skolver, a little note like "this UV will mostly have effect in the Clockworks, it will do nothing at all in Lockdown."

For things from lootboxes, just divide the cost of a box with the chance of getting the item from a single box, or something of that. I'm not qualified to make these exact judgements, which is why I'd like to see the feature implemented.

Thu, 05/28/2026 - 10:18
#1
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
there is no secondary market in Ba Sin Seh...

That Would Be to agree that there is a secondary market...and that have/is Problems on it's Own!

Thu, 05/28/2026 - 15:39
#2
Mawsite's picture
Mawsite
not really feasible

Supply of most items are limited and prices fluctuate wildly depending on: if a loot box or event tied to an item is running or recently ran, player demand for an item vs its rarity both with uv's and its chance to drop, if the item is relevant to a meta, etc. This system would also have to constantly adjust for wild changes in the scarcity of crowns in the economy, since they are the currency tied to gameplay purchases. It would be a rediculous amount of work for a system that probably would not be accurate for most items given how infrequently they are traded.

Thu, 05/28/2026 - 22:33
#3
Fallen-Feces's picture
Fallen-Feces
Eeehh

As noble an idea it is to help newer players avoid scams, I just don't think such a complex tracker will really be useful when the value of an item isn't entirely objective. I refrain from calling it completely subjective since I often see that used as a shield to deflect criticism for people overpricing things or dev inaction for tweaking the things that cause inflated prices.

The actual factors that I think will mostly influence the price of an item are too fragmented. You'd need a sea of information to actually determine what a TRULY good price is for an item. It doesn't stop at "what did the last chump pay for this cluster of pixels". In a game as dead as SK, one of the biggest factors is availability. A handful of people are the only ones left with a wide enough variety to cover most items in the game and as a result they get to just dictate the price now. Want a niche item that was only released once years ago? Pff, good luck. Some walking VFX flashbang munching on grinchlin snowballs is the only dude selling it. The last guy who bought from him lost his kidney!

I highly doubt showing the UV rolls sunk into a weapon would make someone budge on the price. Throwing a tiny amount of money on UVs and getting incredibly lucky to get god rolls for cheap is one of the merchants' dreams. No one's passing up the margins on that even if you have the numbers to prove they can afford it.

Thu, 05/28/2026 - 22:49
#4
Sylvieon's picture
Sylvieon
???

This suggestion doesn't work out because there is no objectively set pricing or worth of an item. Everything is just a ballpark estimation. Scarcity and rarity exist and prices fluctuate over time. Your method basically dictates things to have a fixed worth based on purely what goes into it.
And as a buyer, I don't care how many uv rolls went into an item. A ctr med item is still a ctr med, and I won't pay more based on whether it took 10 rolls or 50 rolls to get it.

Not to mention this system you suggest is entirely focused on equipment only.
Using drop rates from prize boxes to determine a price is also inefficient because sometimes the item in say a 1% drop pool from one prize box is less wanted than from another prize box (example: spotlight aura, as opposed to say flowertech yellow aura). There's also the distinction that footstep auras tend to be more sought after or "fancy", hence being valued higher.

There's just too many factors that influence the pricing of things.
Your method also values uved brandishes as equal to uved caliburs. Which is inherently flawed.

Your logic considers only supply, but not demand. And also assume that trading is only profitable, while the truth is uv rolling is a gamble and can result in losses. And that more investment like spending more uv tickets to roll entitles you to equivalent return or is a factor at all.

"Display how many orbs were used to craft it"
... it's a fixed amount per star of equipment. Just assume 3 of each star's orbs, it's basic math REEEEEEE. (lighthearted)
Fire crystals are a negligible factor in an equipment's worth. Nobody who's struggling for these and considering them a significant expense would be selling equipment in the first place since they'd be using the equipment themselves.

And nobody cares if an item has been owned multiple times, this will not influence pricing or trading whatsoever, there's no point displaying this information.

These "third party tools" like Kozma's Backpack don't dictate pricing and instead give people a history of the item's value from past trades. It gives you information so you can reason it out and form decisions yourself based on market trends which include all factors influencing it. This is similar to what they do with warframe market, where you have a reference of any item's trade pricing. The ideal approach to prevent sharking is to raise usage and accessibility of this tool because at it's core it is simply a record of data.

And what you miss is also that sharking isn't simply under/over pricing, but also intentionally taking advantage of someone's unawareness of prices.
And yeah, it does get more egregious based on the severity of it. Buying an item for 25ke off someone when it's worth 250ke is horrendous degrees of sharking.
However say buying a sunshine aura for 8ke, and reselling it for 10ke isn't the most damning.

Fri, 05/29/2026 - 00:46
#5
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

This is my oversight. When I say "display an item's value", I didn't mean for that to be "display the price for the trade", only for giving the two traders a ballpark idea of where to start. A price below this value means you know the seller is definitely giving you the item at a loss. This is like when you buy a used car from another human: They need the cash and don't need the item. Values above this may still be at a loss, but the higher above it you go, the more it is instead like buying a car from a car salesman.

I think more info is always better on this, and by starting with the material cost, then showing auxiliary info such as "when was the last time in the game it was possible to get this item", "how many of these exist in the game", "how many of these are in possession by someone who has played the past year", and, indeed, "what have past trades of this item looked like?" (not necessarily the specific instance you're buying) would help with deciding the premium the seller deserves. I don't think it would be this tool's place to inflate the price over time. As a made-up example, seeing a chapeu worth 200k crowns but last available in 2011 is enough information for both sides to decide that it's pretty much worth whatever the seller dares to ask and the buyer is willing to pay.

> "Display how many orbs were used to craft it"

I know that and you know that, but it's not as constant as you make it seem. Perfect Mask of Seerus is 5*, yet it only takes three orbs to craft it. Ancient Shield is zero orbs.

> Your method also values uved brandishes as equal to uved caliburs. Which is inherently flawed.

Out of curiosity, which one should cost more? I actually have no idea on this matter. Brandishes are stronger, but they're also more likely to get UV crafted which increases supply.

Fri, 05/29/2026 - 21:24
#6
Sylvieon's picture
Sylvieon
Sure, more info is always

Sure, more info is always good. But it should be useful or necessary information. Frankly a lot of these seem like they'd rather be nothingburgers and unnecessary clutter on the game's ui.
The used car analogy is pointless in this because the criteria for a used car deals with its durability or wearing down due to age or mishandling. Which aren't factors in sk. Gear still functions even if it's pre owned. This is in no way a factor that influences an item's worth.

Material cost is usually a negligible factor in gear prices, since most of the time a 5 star item sells for 5ke minimum, to account for unbind cost and a little profit to the seller. Someone like me who has 450+ eternal orbs, 65k shining fire crystals etc wouldn't consider them as necessary to account for pricing a piece of gear to be sold.
Regarding exceptions of gear that does not take certain orbs like Seerus Mask, you can literally google it and find it on SK wiki. Not to victim blame but if you're not willing to do even the minimum research of searching the wiki, you're just looking to get scammed.

Your logic also neglects equipment reskins like caladbolg, firestorm skeggox, winter's edge, pollinator, spiral soaker, piggy banker, etc. Those don't cost orbs.
And this logic places the value of an item entirely on the method/cost of acquisition, but not on the item's value itself.

You could say this ties into your point of using item drop chances from promotional boxes. But that would place Caladbolg as equal in value to Firestorm Skeggox, which it clearly isn't. Also places the Skeggox and Squall Caller at equal worth to Winter's Edge, Pollinator at equal worth to Virulent Seedling, Caladbolg equal to Pot O' Crowns, Orbitgun equal to Celestial Saber or Vortex. All of which are clearly false by historical data of how these items trade.

And regarding uved brandishes vs uved calibur. The demand just outweighs it so significantly. The reason people rage craft brandish and get so many uved in comparison to calibur in the first place is because it's not worthwhile to uv caliburs, they're just not a good weapon. By past sales records, ASI medium Caliburs tend to go for 25-30k crowns, while the same uved Brandish has shown to go for between 30-70k crowns. A GM Leviathan Blade was sold for 3.1 mil crowns on December 22nd 2024, while GM Combusters have gone from 4.4mil to 6mil between 2021 to 2025.

And returning to the initial point to mitigate sharking. Sharking usually takes place with rarer items like cosmetics and reskinned equipment. Not beginner league items like common equipment.
A point to note is that UI clutter and developer constraints are a thing. It wouldn't be good to include too much unnecessary information within the game client. And maintaining an item's entire trade history would need to have the data stored someone on the developers' side. And with the sheer amount of trades that happen in this economy... Sheesh. Why?

The only valid point you brought up is mentioning when an item was last available, but again this can be found in the game's wikipedia page.
A more lucrative solution would be for the game have an in-game link to the wiki, better maintenance of the wiki page, or even endorsing tools like Kozma's Backpack. Many games thrive on community made tools which turn crucial for the longevity of the game. Warframe market is a beautiful example of this.
And I do believe it should be encouraged for people to actively seek information, than have everything spoonfed to them. There's only so much you can dummyproof something.

Mon, 06/01/2026 - 02:13
#7
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Although items in SK aren't subject to wear and tear, you will still find a difference in price between the basil recipe sold by a human who bought the recipe and sold it so someone could make a weapon and the same recipe sold by the scalper who snatched it up from AH and resold it so they could "be a merchant". Similarly there are items thatmight be items sold at a low profit margin or even a loss, such as a Slime VH Flourish, which I expect is worth a lot less than the chance of rolling it would suggest

> Your logic also neglects equipment reskins like caladbolg, firestorm skeggox, winter's edge, pollinator, spiral soaker, piggy banker, etc. Those don't cost orbs.

I'm not sure where I neglected this?

I'm glad you mentioned Warframe, which has a compendium of every single lootbox the game has had throughout history, what was in them, and even an official API that lists droprates, it's a good example to strive towards. There's an in-game terminal where you can search for items you want and it'll show past and present lootboxes were it might be acquired (or planets where it can be grinded).

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