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Piercing Damage

14 replies [Last post]
Sat, 06/25/2011 - 12:50
bushwhacker
Legacy Username

I keep seeing people recommending Normal/Elemental armor but...

I see very very little elemental and a loooooot of piercing attacks, I saw someone saw only slimes/beasts tend to use piercing but.. they're the most prevalent enemies. Alphas suck because shields are like paper to them and they attack fast and lunge quite a distance, so unless I use my cryotech alchemer (which sucks against them as it does barely any damage and they dodge a lot) I get hit all the time, and any place where slimes are even mentionable are when there are so many in a cramped area that it's totally impossible to avoid getting hit.

Is it some place in tier 2 I haven't been or tier 3 where elemental becomes a problem?

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 13:22
#1
Sunless's picture
Sunless
Elemental, elemental

Elemental, elemental everywhere in Tier 3.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 17:21
#2
Icee's picture
Icee
Old rule is out of date.

There used to be very few monsters that did piercing attacks (only giant lichen colonies). Wolvers, chromalisks, and most slimes did only normal attacks until an update a few weeks ago. So, before that update, elemental was much more important and piercing defense was nearly useless.

Since that update, there is far more piercing in the game and now you may actually encounter a bit more piercing (beasts and slimes) than elemental (mostly construct attacks like retrode lasers and puppy bullets). There's little or no piercing in the firestorm citadel, though, so you'll need a mix of normal, shadow, and elemental for taking on Vanaduke.

Shadow gets no love because all of the normal/shadow armors (except deadshot) also come with fire weakness. There is also no bomber nor swordfighter armor with shadow defense built in. That said, devilites and greavers are the most difficult monsters in tier 3, so you'll want a set with good shadow defense eventually.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 17:27
#3
Dogrock's picture
Dogrock
Shadow gets no love because

Shadow gets no love because all of the normal/shadow armors (except deadshot) also come with fire weakness.

Fallen too.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 18:59
#4
Icee's picture
Icee
Oops.

I forgot that Fallen trades fire weakness for curse weakness. There's still a weakness, though. Compared to the array of not-weak, plus damage buff normal/elemental gear out there, the options for shadow defense are pretty unappealing. I'm going to need it anyway, though.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 20:50
#5
Matuse
Legacy Username
Fallen has a damage penalty

Fallen has a damage penalty vs fiends. Defeats the entire point of defending against them when you also can't kill them anywhere near as fast.

Terrible armor.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 22:24
#6
Sunless's picture
Sunless
Fallen has a damage penalty

Fallen has a damage penalty vs fiends. Defeats the entire point of defending against them when you also can't kill them anywhere near as fast.

Terrible armor.

Lolno.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 23:58
#7
Matuse
Legacy Username
If you're not going to bother

If you're not going to bother putting forth something that even vaguely resembles a fact or even a relatively informed opinion; don't post at all.

Twit.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 00:13
#8
Sunless's picture
Sunless
Now, now, must we resort to

Now, now, must we resort to insults? We're all gentlemen here, including the ladies. As for your original point, the damage penalty vs fiend is irrelevant; you are doing maybe 10-20 less damage - inconsequential given the amount of Shadow Defense and Fire Resistance you obtain. We are, of course, ignoring the fact that Fiends aren't the only things that deal Shadow Damage. It hardly defeats the entire purpose of the armor and is far from terrible.

My friend.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 03:29
#9
Krakatoah
Legacy Username
Shadow gets no love because

Shadow gets no love because all of the normal/shadow armors (except deadshot) also come with fire weakness.

This can always be remedied for through use of some fire resist trinkets, a good shield with fire resist (Owlite comes to mind, heck it even looks good with Valkyrie!) or if the inevitable happens and you do get lit on fire, use a bloody Remedy Capsule! They exist to get rid of annoying status effects and its not likely your going to get shocked in Firestorm Citadel anyways.

Besides, if your only using the armor to deal with Fiend Tiers, the only problems you should have are with Firebranders and Ruby Greavers in Fire based levels, which you can always skip most of the time.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 04:47
#10
Alchemystic's picture
Alchemystic
The damage penalty for Armor

The damage penalty for Armor of the Fallen is partially offset by the increased attack speed. Curse resistance is only useful if you are wielding a cursed weapon or get hit by a Phantom's charged attack. Fire resistance is far more useful since a lot of different monsters can inflict it.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 09:38
#11
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
The reason elemental is still

The reason elemental is still in vogue is because piercing damage comes from mostly melee or very short-range sources, which are easier to dodge. Elemental damage is particularly dangerous because puppy turrets can and will attack from very long range while you are otherwise occupied. Turrets are also found on nearly every level, regardless of strata, which makes normal/elemental a very attractive investment. Arguably, shadow damage from devilites and fiends is equally dangerous, but by and large they are restricted to fiend strata and/or fiend levels and one can simply choose not to run those strata/levels, whereas elemental fire from puppy turrets is everywhere.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 18:33
#12
Icee's picture
Icee
Teleporting wolvers

Once wolvers start teleporting (T2 for Alphas, T3 for all of them), the fact that it's a "melee or very short range" piercing attack becomes pretty irrelevant. The wolver goes "pop" and bites you in the behind. Even freezing them in place doesn't help much (they can teleport once after being frozen). I find gun puppies and retrodes a breeze compared to teleporting wolvers. (Hint: use the cryotech alchemer line against range-attack constructs)

Devilites and greavers may be the most difficult enemies in the game for me, but I have no shadow defense in my current armor, so that's a big part of that. I'm saving up for a dread skelly charm, but grim tokens aren't exactly seeking me out, and I'm not going to start working on deadshot (or maybe Fallen) until I get my demo stuff to 5*.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 21:55
#13
Sunless's picture
Sunless
(Hint: use the cryotech

(Hint: use the cryotech alchemer line against range-attack constructs)

There's no point. The ricochet will, more often than not, just unfreeze them.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 23:52
#14
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
DBB

That's odd, Icee. If you're a demoman, you should have no trouble at all with wolvers, just get the Dark Briar Barrage. Also, as long as you're in constant motion and there isn't an idiot in the party trying to gun Wolvers, they should basically never hit you. They may pop up near you, but you'll be moving and away from their strike zone in plenty of time. Also, DBB is great in that it knocks them down, but not back- so as they chase you, you can basically smack them down repeatedly. It's a shame the fuse isn't shorter, otherwise you would be able to properly chain it.

On the other hand, if you're gunning Wolvers (with anything other than the Magnus/Callahan), you're probably doing it wrong. Even then, I'd recommend bombing or a quick sword (Flourish/Snarble Barb or Levi comes to mind).

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