Spiral Knights - Monster Template Shuffle/Revamp?

Monster Template Shuffle/Revamp?

21 replies [Last post]

Sun, 02/13/2011 - 21:10

Levonis

So with documentation underway regarding monster attack types and monster strength/weaknes types, the current monster template will need to make room for this information. I've started fiddling around with it on my user page (down the bottom): http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Levonis

Each individual attack will be listed with the damage type and any resulting status effects. Abilities such as healing and camouflage would be written as a part of the description. This template also includes the tier the monster can be found in. I've yet to think of a solution for monsters that can appear at any tier (Dust Zombies, Tortodrones).

Since one monster's info box is quite thin, this leaves enough room for two monsters per row, using a border- and background-less table.

Thoughts?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:14

Equinox

Game Master

I like the idea of more

I like the idea of more useful information. I think it shouldn't be two column for two reasons: 1) People at lower resolution having to sideways scroll and 2) I'd like to have headers for each monster name so they can be included in the TOC which will also automatically anchor them for direct section linking.

Edit: I'll see what I can do about making those little damage icons the same sort of positioning as the highres status ones.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:13

Pauling

Instead of having the tier be

Instead of having the tier be a numeric variable (1,2,3), perhaps it could be a set of binary choices? Tier1=y, tier2=y, Tier3=n?

In addition to knowing what types of damage a monster can dish out, we'd also eventually like to track what damage a monster can take. (ie, weaknesses against certain attack types)

Is there a place to put that in the new template?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 22:10

Levonis

Thanks both of you for that

Thanks both of you for that feedback.

@Equinox I hadn't thought of low-resolution monitors. The challenge is placing all these boxes in a way that allows for flexible amounts of content while using the space efficiently. I'll work on that.

@Pauling That's a really good idea for Tiers. I'm gonna do that. :D There is already a box there that has 'Strength Vs:' and 'Weakness Vs:'. Could this be phrased/displayed better?

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 19:17

Pauling

Monster defense stats

Oh, hey. I didn't see those "strength"/"weakness" boxes. Thanks, Levonis. Durgh.

Looking at those boxes: I've seen the term "strong against x" before, but I've always found it a little awkward. More importantly, some monsters have 3 levels of defense, making the "strong/weak" distinction incomplete. These category names are verbose, but they get the point across:

High defense vs
Normal Defense vs
Defense Penalty vs

For example, if I remember correctly, jellies resist piercing damage, respond normally to normal attacks, and are cut down effortlessly by elemental attacks. (Though it's hard to test this without good controlled experiments)

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 19:35

Dogrock

I really like the look of

I really like the look of that revamp.

Is there some kind section tag in there? I'd really like to be able to link to specific monsters when there's a bunch of monsters listed. So instead of going ".../wiki/Jelly" and scrolling down to Brute Jelly I could link ".../wiki/Jelly#Brute_Jelly" and be there immediately.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 19:39

Pupu

Legacy Username

Maybe we should add abilities under attacks? For non-agressive abilities like heals and the like.
Also would be really cool if a mouseover over an attack/ability gave a brief description, crosslinked from an ability list or something.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 19:56

Equinox

Game Master

Dogrock: We're going to put

Dogrock: We're going to put them in sections to get them in the TOC. Specifically for the linking thing along with the TOC

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 02:55

Levonis

My initial thought was to put

My initial thought was to put extra abilities like healing in the attacks section, but when you start with the simple abilities, trying to explain the functions of a Pit Boss for example as a bullet point becomes yucky, as well as not actually being an attack. Perhaps bolding the important parts of the description would suit it? Just an idea.

Edit: @Pauling I figured just stating a monster's strengths and weaknesses would simply imply other damage types have to effect. If there were a way to fit it in, I'll try to display the information similar to the tiers, where there's a box for each damage type and an indication of positive, negative or no effects.

Edit again to prevent double posting: I've added 4 individual boxes for each damage type, to allow a lot more flexibility (just pretend the attack symbol is the defense symbol). It actually works out well because we'll probably use the horizontal space more in the locations section anyway. I've put place holders of '^^^', 'vvv' and '---' to indicate effects, but hopefully we can upload images such as the arrows used for bonuses on gear tooltips.

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 08:18

Equinox

Game Master

How're

How're these:

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/File:Defense_increased.png
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/File:Defense_none.png
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/File:Defense_decreased.png

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 16:14

#10

Levonis

Perfect! Thanks!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 23:02

#11

Levonis

Bumping this thread to save

Bumping this thread to save making a new thread.

So with the post made by Hermes listing the damage type strengths and weaknesses, we now know that these traits are the same for all members of a monster family. We also know that a lot of monsters have been altered to become to different enough that we can differentiate between tiers. This sort of makes the new boxes added to the monster template very redundant. I'll probably remove these soon if someone else doesn't beat me to it. Perhaps we can at least add a box that mentions if the monster in question has an elemental type such as fire or shock.

This update has also highlighted the attention that is needed for the monster family pages, which currently are all very inconsistent. To get this process started, I've begun work on the Fiend monster page (http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Fiend_Family). This page should be the standard and reference point for other family pages (when complete that is, it still needs some work).

Thoughts?

Wed, 03/02/2011 - 19:37

#12

Saphykun

Looks good so far!

I fixed the monster template so that we don't need to edit the stats. Where the stats used to be is taken up by the Locations cell, so we don't get some weird blank space.

Now all we need are the official monster names, and then everything will be set into place ^^

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 02:58

#13

Levonis

The tier indicators will have

The tier indicators will have to go too, since each monster is called the same thing regardless of tier now.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 03:52

#14

crysbear

Legacy Username

@levonis i can confirm this

@levonis
i can confirm this aswell, its what nick said

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 06:44

#15

Saphykun

Huh. I wonder what that means

Huh. I wonder what that means for the Gun Puppies that have MK builds. Obliteration comes later. I'll fix the monster template later today unless someone goes ahead and tinkers with it ^^

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 13:58

#16

Levonis

It means we delete them, me

It means we delete them, me thinks. The only difference between them is a skin modification and a couple more bullets.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 15:21

#17

Saphykun

Aight, so the MK upgrades of

Aight, so the MK upgrades of gun pups and Mecha Knights are deleted. How about the Chroma Whelps, Chromalisks, and Bull Chromalisks? I haven't seen them yet, but I'm sure they have the same attacks.
I've also compiled a bunch of monster images here: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/File:Monster_Compilations.png

It's up there for anyone to use (or edit) so that as the monster names are released, editors can just snip/crop them out. We can't move image names, and I personally don't like to see deletion logs in the Recent Changes page ^^;

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 21:56

#18

Levonis

Yes, since they're tiered,

Yes, since they're tiered, we'd get rid of those leaving the Chromalisk. I assume that there are still 'normal' types of monsters, they just might be altered a bit.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 18:34

#19

Equinox

Game Master

I'm fooling around with

I'm fooling around with hidden text to add headers for those monster info tables. Take a look at: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gun_Puppy and let me know what you think. It really seems like a good idea to have the names show up in the TOC so you don't have to scroll if you just want to look at a particular one. This should also allow for linking: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gun_Puppy#Sparky

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 22:26

#20

Equinox

Game Master

Just in case you haven't

Just in case you haven't already excitedly browsed the monster names list Nick posted, here they are: http://forums.spiralknights.com/node/1536

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 08:31

#21

Equinox

Game Master

http://wiki.spiralknights.com

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Wolver

Monster interested folks should use my example in Ash Tail, Alpha Ash Tail, and Frostifur to add tier specific descriptions of wolvers. We'll have to ponder doing visuals for all three tiers, but it may require a further template alteration as not all monsters have tier specific versions (slag guard, etc).

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Monster Template Shuffle/Revamp?