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Medic equipment and drain

10 replies [Last post]
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 08:49
Xplor's picture
Xplor

I think this game would add a level of depth to strategic gameplay if you introduce equipment that allows for healing.

A good one could be a healing bomb where upon detonation, it would create an area which heals party members within the blast radius.
Alternative is an upgrade to wench wand (4*) where you can whack things like a sword but upon charge it will heal nearby party member(s).
For a gun i think a charged shot AT the party member sounds good (provided they are able to stay still or you dont miss)

Another interesting weapon is kind from the FF playbook:

Always loved the blood lance and blood sword which allow me to drain enemey's health as i do damage. Unlike FF it can be a charge to use only deal while normal damage does not drain health. A weakness is perhaps draining certain class (ie Undead) does damage as oppose to heal to balance it a little more. So Vanaduke might not give you a strategic edge but let's say JK with the baby jelly around can do a lot of healing. This would be interesting as it can be differently applied to sword, gun and bomb respectively.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 10:06
#1
Vermilicious
Legacy Username
Weapons that drain health

Weapons that drain health sounds like a great idea. The amount had better be small though.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:04
#2
Madadder's picture
Madadder
i believe the devs explicitly

i believe the devs explicitly said they wouldnt be adding any form of healing beyond what we have now because that takes away some of the challenge FSC would be a breeze will heals

drain im 50/50 on maybe make it a change to steal health instead of a guaranteed on hit

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:07
#3
Daystar
Legacy Username
No.

Read this.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10857

Short answer: if healing is going to be in the game, it won't be like that.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:51
#4
Xplor's picture
Xplor
@daystar not a bad post very engaging with some good points.

I like your healing window idea but its probably gonna be hard for the developer to implement and the players to keep track. I think another possibility to healing method is as opposed to an instantaneous effect it could be over a duration of time. Kind of like a slow regen. Similar to popping potions in Diablo. Example: A bomb set to heal 3 bars @ 20 secs a bar. As opposed to stand in AoE and automatically heal 3 bars. You want insta-heal pop a pill or capsule. So in the thick of battle, although you are getting healed you still have a high chance of dying.

in addition, perhaps additional balancing could include things like being able to heal others only and not yourself for things like gun and "wand". that would mean the "healer" cannot be a sideline character per say or the act of healing causes the mob within range to aggro the healer (deem target as high priority like we do with the healer gremlin and butterflies)

i left out bomb because perhaps with bomb you can heal yourself but it will heal indiscrimately which means you have the potential to heal enemy characters. However that being said if we were to heal enemies of a certain class (ie Undead) it will do adverse effect and damage them instead

then we can fine tune things like heal amount, charge time, weapon combo and damage

about the FSC comment, I think healing would not change the status quo of the game difficulty much but add another depth of strategy and teamwork. Lots of games have healing but that doesn't mean you cannot die and lose. Like i said there are some potential there.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:58
#5
Jaerin
Legacy Username
The issue with healing

The issue with healing weapons and the like is you need to make it such that damage is a lot higher than.

Someone who avoids all damage is not going to find any use from a healer, but the devs can't really balance things around not dodging at all and then make those that do dodge ultra powerful. The health the way it is now is really what makes the game challenging. It really is about not getting hit as much as you can. Having a healer just means that people will Kamakazi even more than they do now.

I thought this was a good idea at first, but it would be a pretty fundamental game changer. Perhaps equipment that would allow you to give your own health to someone else might be interesting. Adding a healing class just means that hearts will become rare and a healer will become required every run. I like the current dodging skill model better.

Not a bad idea at all just don't think it really fits in this game.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 12:48
#6
Xplor's picture
Xplor
valid point

i do believe your point is valid as a personal preference to RPGs I like to play theif class ("if you can't hit me, you can't kill me" principle). However playing any game long enough unless you are very experienced or an uber-player. chances are you are going to get hit, and often. But being an average player and playing enough times I noticed there is a need for it.

I've been doing JK runs all week (as far as ME can get me [been using it as a limiter to how much gaming I play each day]). I've rubbed elbows with ppl who just graduated to 2* to expereienced players who know what they are doing with 5* equipment. At the end of the day I do see shrinking life bars, some faster than others.

I think with the slow regen idea as opposed to a "healer" it would play out more like a "protracter" to draw out the battle a little longer as opposed to having everyone die at once. This would also deter daystars concern of ppl healing post battle to full. Depending on life bar and amount damage sustained if worse comes to worse would you waste about 10 mins to slowly heal everyone. My only concern I think most ppl would get impatient, some more than other and urge ppl to soldier on or others would just rage-quit.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:26
#7
Dukesky
Legacy Username
Capsules with a heal radius maybe?

Has the idea of Capsules that heal yourself + others nearby been discussed anywhere yet? They'd still have to be dropped by enemies and capped at 3 per person, like every other item, and the heal radius could be about the size of a 2* elemental mist bomb. Sorry if this is too derailing.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 14:00
#8
Jaerin
Legacy Username
That's my point though.

That's my point though. Those health bars are reducing because the players aren't good enough. There are more than enough hearts to go around in most runs that if you're not kamakazi'ing and are using proper shielding and such you can mitigate or avoid a vast majority of the damage. If you find yourself dying all the time, get a gun and practice kiting. It will take a lot longer, but you'll get to see every attack, you'll get to see the layout of the dungeons, and you'll be able to stay alive.

If you give a player the means to heal up after fights and such then it just encourage people to take levels slower.

As I said if you're getting hit then you need more practice. Even the best players are going to get hit now and then, but that's what hearts are for if you need more than that you need more practice or better equipment. Now with that said everyone has bad runs. Everyone has bad luck and that's just a fact of life.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 06:16
#9
Xplor's picture
Xplor
@jaerin

I love it when I talk to someone who shares their opinion and perspective openly without the mud flinging and name calling. It let's me explore some things I have yet to think about. I would like to point out to an interesting statement you wrote.

"If you find yourself dying all the time, get a gun and practice kiting. It will take a lot longer, but you'll get to see every attack, you'll get to see the layout of the dungeons, and you'll be able to stay alive."

Now I that in itself is a strategy and a method of fighting. One that inevitably does increase play time. However the "healing" method I am proposing would it in itself be a strategy like the gunner who is kiting allow a melee fighter to score a couple more hits before he falls? Also between you and i who are we to say the amount of time a person/party would to spend on a level?

Now what I am proposing may not be necessary to the more professional player but perhaps before one does become pro it may help the lower levels do a little more better. I mean as a intermediate player (not pro yet) I may op to bring a healing weapon (which will take up a slot) to the stage or bring on a gun for the kite strategy. Kind of an addition to the learning curve. I mean yes you can learn to dodge and be great, but those who love to melee and do not have much confidence in dodging it will be of some assistance. I think it would also be invaluable to someone who would be going solo as well. You get the hang of dodging you can be less dependent on "heal" until you phase it out altogether. Also the ability to heal could open up another slot of vials.

Then there are things like you said "luck" and sometimes you get some traffic spike where your lag and then walk over a bunch of spikes. Well that is just bad luck. I think healing wouldn't be a bad thing when stuff like that happens tho.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 08:03
#10
sutirem
Legacy Username
SupaPostOfSutirem

Enabling players to heal...no, not in this game, another stupid idea to make this game easier.

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