I was helping someone run a T1 dungeon the other day and noticed I was doing 12-17 dmg per swing with my 4 star gear. This is terrible. I'm not even sure why this exists. You may say for balance purposes, but the reality is blasting through a T1 in 4 star gear is dumb anyways because the payout is bad. Just let the weapons do whatever damage they do and if in T1 or T2 it's 200+ so be it. Nerfing these things is just frustrating and miserable.
Remove damage reduction at lower tiers
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:35
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:41
#2
it was found that doing full
it was found that doing full damage in lower tier is actually really boring, thats why this thing is in place
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:45
#3
Balance
Not to mention it means you won't blow through the place as fast and so take a bit more time amazing any crowns/materials you get in all the Tier 1. Even if they're low ranked in stars, especially the shards, some sell for a good price in the AH (again, some shards).
It's all a matter of keeping a bit of balance really.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:46
#4
Boring? I liked pwning.
I really did. I don't like actually struggling through tier 1 when I can almost pwn tier 2. This isn't a fair system at all. I worked for my strength, not so that I could have it nerfed but so that I could kill anything that stood in my way. If that means clearing some floors so that next time I can jump straight to tier 2 becomes a tad tedious, I don't care. If I wanted a challenge I'd join a party to strengthen the monsters. Now I can hardly solo.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:52
#5
Now I can hardly solo.
Stop
Now I can hardly solo.
Stop sucking. Problem solved; next thread.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:57
#6
Agree with CorianWornen
I didn't spend all the time and crowns/energy on a full 4 star Ash tail setup to struggle with T1 jellies. All this does for me is if someone asks for help I have to tell them no because I actually can't be of any more value than some newb who just started the game. The balance argument is bad, because all it's done is balance to the other extreme. I'm in a position now where because of the nerfing I can't solo any lower tiers, and because of stupid over powered monster nonsense I can't run T3. So I'm literally unable to run dungeons at this point which removes the entire purpose of the game.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 22:57
#7
dude this is another game
dude this is another game lengthening thing OOO does so u dont blow through the whole thing like candy. did u know ur armor is also affected
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:16
#8
Agree with CorianWornen
I didn't spend all the time and crowns/energy on a full 4 star Ash tail setup to struggle with T1 jellies. All this does for me is if someone asks for help I have to tell them no because I actually can't be of any more value than some newb who just started the game. The balance argument is bad, because all it's done is balance to the other extreme. I'm in a position now where because of the nerfing I can't solo any lower tiers, and because of stupid over powered monster nonsense I can't run T3. So I'm literally unable to run dungeons at this point which removes the entire purpose of the game.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:18
#9
Huh
For some reason that double posted. Nonetheless, I was aware of the armor thing too. Which is also stupid. This game does a lot of dumb [crap] I am trying to look past cause it's in the early stages still, but seriously. This is just the worst.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:19
#10
it was found that doing full
it was found that doing full damage in lower tier is actually really boring, thats why this thing is in place
That was pretty much it. Originally there was no damage scaling; plus Emberlight and Moorcroft being full sub-towns like Haven it resulted in a completely segregated player base. The in game interaction between newbies with real questions and veterans with all the knowledge was effectively zero.
It really isn't fun (after the first few runs, which are amusing) breathing in the direction of a monster and have them die. If you had a friend start playing when you are a veteran doing a run with them was somewhat absurd. You could just roflstomp the floor and they would do nothing, and that's no fun for them. Also, they never got to learn how to actually play for themselves that way. You'd just end up in random groups where one player was practically carting people down though the depths. Again, not fun.
Also, this is a mechanism to prevent abuse too. Without Tier scaling it was far too easy to bring along "heat mules" and abuse the heat transfer mechanic on reviving.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:22
#11
Game lengthening suggestion.
Instead of countermanding the hard work we put into our equipment, make the dungeons longer. Add more than thirty floors. Add another planet, add some more modes. But making 3 and 4 star armor as effective as the proto gear is just stupid and removes the point of the game. If I wanted to play as a newb, I would have kept my crap gear and just saved up energy to dive deeper.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:49
#12
i'm in all 5* gear now and if
i'm in all 5* gear now and if i want to play with some of the newer guild members this allows me to join in on a more even level rather than me just wading in and one hit killing everything thus reducing the level of enjoyement of the rest of my team.
i think it's a good mechanic that enables people of all skill levels play together. if it wasn't in place i'd have to stick to tier 3 exclusively as tier 2 is too easy as it is anyway.
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:59
#13
That's pointless though, make it optional
The problem with that d3an79 is that the various skill levels is the reason we have tiers in the first place. I understand wanting to help friends, but what if your just joining randomly? Even if you cream everything everyone gets the same items. Make it an option at the very least to block out certain tier players if you really don't want to play with pwnrs.
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:18
#14
There isn't any hard damage
There isn't any hard damage scaling, the damage scaling is quite soft actually. I find myself one hit killing everything even with a full party on the lower tiers.
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 21:41
#15
Honestly it's not the damage I give that bugs me
It's the damage I recieve. I worked hard to have armor that collectivly give me (what the stats screen calls) +11 health. But this health doesn't show up until tier two and that just irks me. It's not the biggest thing in the world that they did it but I think that they should either re-adjust their stats to tell what your getting each tier or make it an option to turn off and on.
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:37
#16
@CorianWornen
If you inspect the armor in those tiers it will be adjusted accordingly in the description.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Clockworks#Equipment_Reduction
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 07:17
#17
Huh
Very well, it says that on the wiki and on the tiers but I want to be able to see it outside. An easy way this could be accomplished is by making it so that when your looking at what tiers you have clearance on you can move your cursor over one of the filled in tiers and up will pop your nerfed stats for that set of floors.
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:19
#18
Yes my gear is nerfed. I
Yes my gear is nerfed. I still blitz through Snarble-Thingy land like a cakewalk. The nerfing isn't so extreme that my gear is proto level. And the monsters are still weaker, dumber, and slower. If you have 4* gear and are getting pwn'd solo, I'd love to join your group so I can laugh in your face.
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:24
#19
@aquajag
true!
with my 2*equipment i can EASILY solo tier 1 so you folks should be able to with your fancy 4 and 5* equipment!
the best way i do it is by using my shield right after 3 attacks, sword or gun, which prevent 2/3s of the attacks that come from all the enemies, the rest are ranged which i can easily move out of the way.
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:32
#20
lawl, sorry for derailing
But if you are struggling with T1 jellies with any level of equips, I am amazed you can survive in T2. T1 Jellies do less than half a pip of damage, and about 75% of the time if you stand still, they simply miss. The only part of T1 that is any challenge at all is a lower half danger room, when the enemies are from T2 and do all their T2 attacks (including split damage types), while your gear is still nerfed. If you're in 4* gear and can't solo T1, you really do need to "lrn2play", as the internet sages say.
Ok, I'm done trolling now. Here are some actual tips:
1) Shield only when necessary. Unless you are expecting an attack to come flying in, shielding will slow your movement and allow faster enemies to catch up to you while kiting.
2) Liberal use of shield bump. Flash your shield up for a half second while within a tile of an enemy, and you will send them scooting away. This is useful for getting yourself out of a sticky situation.
3) Avoid corners. If you get trapped in a corner it is usually your own fault, and you'll get boned. If there aren't too many monsters, shield bump to get out, or use a high-movement sword like Flourish to punch your way through.
4) Watch out for hazards. T1 is extremely forgiving in terms of hazards, but it does slowly add up. Don't run through spikes and brambles because you are impatient.
5) Be very judicious about finishing a sword combo. The second swing of a heavy sword leaves you wiiiide open; even the third swing on a Calibur leaves you exposed, because it launches you forward into the monsters without doing a huge knockback like the heavy swords.
6) Shield cancel. If you've ever heard of R-cancelling in Super Smash Bros, this is the equivalent. It will skip the second part of your sword animation, allowing you to swing again faster. With a fast sword like Flourish, I can make 4 one-swing hits in a second by shield cancelling, dropping shield and swinging again. To shield cancel, hold down the shield button right after you click and release attack (while your knight is doing its attack animation).
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 09:53
#21
NOPE
This is the greatest mechanic. I can get a friend to play and join them for some runs in the first tier without me becoming bored from not having any challenge and him becoming bored from not getting to actually do anything. You still keep the non-stat advantages your weapons give you like spinslashes and large explosion radius.
Plus, your complaint isn't even valid. I did the Snarbolax run with full 2* gear and was disappointed that I didn't even have to care in combat; I could simply run up to monsters and, take all their damage and slash away while yawning. If anything, the nerf should be boosted.
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 19:28
#22
I think the OP means higher
I think the OP means higher tiers. Elevation and whatnot.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 01:07
#23
Clarification
I am not saying that I get pwned all day long in T1, what I'm saying is it takes infinite time to get through it because I do next to no damage. I did "lrn2play" as someone called it earlier, the complaint is more that if I wanna waste my energy running around doing 500+ damage to T1 jellies in my 4* gear, then I should be able to do that. I earned it. As for T2, I stopped running it solo because I don't know if the bouncing fire bug has been fixed yet, and since my gear is apparently junk for T3, I'm stuck in a bad spot.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 01:11
#24
I stopped running it solo
I stopped running it solo because I don't know if the bouncing fire bug has been fixed yet
It's been fixed for nearly 2 weeks.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 06:09
#25
A carpenter does not blame his tools.
I'm going to be completely honest here.
OP is the kind of player that expects to have "God Mode" just because he has good weapons. The same type of player that's a selfish, reckless idiot that never uses his shield, takes damage from everything he encounters, doesn't care for his team and wastes tons of CE reviving himself. He fails at the game so hard that not only does he blame it on the others, but he complains about his damage in Tier 1 runs when he has the potential to clear Tier 2 and even the first few stages in Tier 3.
This is the most pathetic thread I've ever seen. Sadly, OP isn't the only one like this. There are many others out there just like him, failing hard and wasting all the CE they can grab. Believe me, I've seen it everywhere and I can see it again.
We have two options here. The first one is getting OP to admit he fails so he can start getting better, or we can just let the thread die.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:22
#26
That one heck of an assumption
So because I think damage nerfing is bad, you assume I'm some awful player who wastes ton of CE and sucks at life? I can clear T2, I get wrecked in T3 cause I'm full ash tail and have hardly any elemental resistance. The T1 issue was simply me not being a douche like yourself and trying to help new players out. I don't auto die in T1, it just takes forever is my complaint. I think have a 4 star weapon deal 12 damage is ridiculous. All I am saying. Lrn2read if you wanna call someone out.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:35
#27
implying implications
I did read. You never mentioned you were helping T1 newbies in the first place. And even then, it only takes a few swings to kill anything in T1 if you have a 4star weapon. It doesn't take me a long time, I dunno what kinda weapons you're using. And it's not ridiculous to do low damage on T1 monsters because their health is much, much lower.
Oh, and you think I'm a douche just because I'm dishing out blunt criticism? Grow up, you butthurt child. 4 star weapons can still slay enemies decently in Tier 1. You're just a selfish kid that wants random and unnecessary crap implemented in the game. There are reasons why Three Rings added damage reduction for powerful items in lower tiers. Obvious reasons. And if you can't figure out why on your own, then you REALLY don't know anything about Spiral Knights or Balance.
Sun, 07/03/2011 - 07:17
#28
This game has always been about real player skills
and it should always be about real skills instead of gears.
You invested all your crowns and time, so you can go deeper,
not so you can go to a lower tier and have an easy time =d
I have all 3 star equips and before the last up date (or maybe the one before) would join even on tier 1 (to get a cheaper tier 2 start) and started with one full line and a spare bar of health on the party gauge. Now I don't even get the full bar. I'm 3 short to be accurate. And when I get to tier 2 my health jumps regardless of whatever my vitapod is.