Spiral Knights - Will Sega implement subscription at all?

Will Sega implement subscription at all?

20 replies [Last post]

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 07:43

stanfy

Legacy Username

I started playing when the steam version was released, and i'm finding this game to be quite addictive, but here's the problem:

I bought the starter pack, and while i'm already down to 5K CE (crafted a few 2* - 3* items, some for a friend who cant afford CE), i cant help but feel that I will have to buy more CE in order to make one single set of 5* gear.

Will Sega implement a flat rate for monthly playing? something like 10$ a month, that way its competitive with existing MMO's.

I don't have a problem with energy being used for elevators/res'ing or gates, its when you see a 2* item costing 200 energy, and a 5* costing 800 energy, the real $ value associated to that requirement is actually more expensive than say playing WoW for a month, and getting to end-game.

I actually think the 100 mist a day is a neat take on the "unlimited trial" that you see with a lot of MMO's, but again when you take a look into crafting, it quickly becomes apparent that you need to pay money to go anywhere in this game, and on a piece-by-piece basis.

I know people will say to go farm crowns but then you feel like you are just farming money to play more, to farm money to play more, and unless you are semi-decked out you really cant farm a lot of money reliably.

I know then this change would alienate the real free players who only use their two hours a day, but why not make it so that crafting only costs money + mats (because the alchemy cost is pretty high enough when considering the cost of most recipe's ). The mist energy would be for res'ing/elevators and people who pay 10-15$ a month don't have to pay energy to go down elevators, but will still have to pay energy to resurrect.

Give people who pay the monthly flat rate a monthly "allowance" of CE, so that if they die a lot, they aren't stuck.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 07:53

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Short answer: No.Long

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Three Rings reviewed player satisfaction with payment options in their previous title, Puzzle Pirates, and discovered that players highly favored pay-as-you-go over subscription-based payment plans. As such, Spiral Knights was designed and planned around a pay-as-you-go basis.

Also, if you die a lot, look at ways to get hit less often, and remember that teammates can revive you by sharing their health rather than spending energy.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:04

Amnaf

You can give yourself the

You can give yourself the equivalent of a subscription by budgeting a certain amount of cash for buying CE every month.

Also, the Energy cost of crafting helps somewhat to keep the auctions market from being completely flooded by items, which helps to maintain a measure of market price stability.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:21

stanfy

Legacy Username

Yeah but still...

Yeah that does make sense, but what if i want to marathon play a few weekends, like i play standard MMO's, im still limited to the amount of dungeons i can do, or items i can craft....

Your point for crafting is valid, but have you seen the crown cost to buy, and make a 5* recipe? i think that alone would keep the market from being flooded, sure lower tier items will be devalued, but it would allow more people to go further with their 100 mist energy a day....

I really cannot figure out how free players can ever expect to get anywhere above 2/3* gear : /

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:37

zenstar

Legacy Username

The faster you play towards

The faster you play towards the endgame the quicker you burn your energy.
You could sell off energy for crowns, buy recipes on the AH, buy mats on the AH and craft a full set of 5* gear without having been into a dungeon at all (you could even skip the "travel to Haven" dungeon by joining a friend already in Haven).
In fact you can skip the recipes and simply sell all your energy for crowns and then buy a full set of 5* with best UVs.
Well done. You "bought" the end credits. Or you could slow down and do more work to get all your gear and spread the crafting out a bit to take advantage of the free 100 daily ME, spend some crowns on buying back energy, and you'll find you'll extend your energy a lot more and enjoy the journey to 5* a lot more too.

A friend of mine is in all 3* gear and has put in plenty of time since the steam launch and he's only ever bought 750 energy once (the cheapest amount you can get). He even had a sick day where he spent the entire day grinding mats. He thouroughly enjoys the game and it's cost him a total of about $3. He funds his energy through crowns which he gets from running dungeons. Just make sure you don't die.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:34

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

I'm in 5* gear and haven't

I'm in 5* gear and haven't spent a dime.

Gotta work smarter, not harder. Find and farm the profitable strata: anything in the second half of a tier with multiple arenas of monster types that drop expensive materials such as Constructs (Heavy Gear) or Undead (Ghost Bell). If there isn't one, go with Royal Jelly Palace as a bread-and-butter backup.

The second half of a tier has massive crown and heat rewards compared to the first-- it's set up to make crown-farming require a bigger investment of energy. But if you have friends that are already in the second half of a tier, you can join their party and skip the weak profits from the earlier stages they've already cleared, plus it's more fun to run with friends.

If you know you won't be playing for a few days, login and spend your extra Mist energy on building popular 2* weapons and shields to put up for auction. No sense wasting it.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 09:55

stanfy

Legacy Username

how bout this then

OK well what if they increase the daily mist energy cap to 200 or 300, then people can play for longer ( I think people would normally play for about 4-5 hrs max, if there was no limit)....

1-2 hrs is a little short IMHO....less if you craft anything.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 11:06

nearo

Legacy Username

Stanfy,

Mist cap was higher in beta, they decided they didn't want it like that.

*edit* I'm a free to play player, never spent a single cent on SK, and I have all 5 stars, four 5 star armors even.
just from fighting in clockworks.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 11:22

Dogrock

Also, the SEGA partnership

Also, the SEGA partnership came after the inception of the Energy system (well, most of the game too). I doubt they have the creative control to affect this game so dramatically.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:01

Algol-Sixty

Long answer: Three Rings

I'm not sure about the "player satisfaction" claim, but to elaborate on this, puzzle pirates started out as a subscription MMORPG. Later, they added a micropayment model as a new ocean (server). (All oceans are independent, nothing can be transfered between them.) Since then, OOO has added four more micropayment oceans and no more subscription oceans. The micropayment oceans have about 6 times as many players, although Cleaver (CEO of OOO) has stated that the revenue per player is about the same under both models.

I'm not sure that subscribers are less satisfied, but there does appear to be a lot fewer players that prefer it.

That said, YPP is not SK, and a subscription for gates could be added without greatly disrupting the game, as long as crafting, reviving and other uses of CE remain needing CE. For various reasons, it would be very hard to have a hybrid subscriber/micropayment model for YPP.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:01

#10

vabjekf

Legacy Username

I want a subscription that

I want a subscription that removes elevator costs and gives weapon/trinket slots. Let energy still be for crafting/rezing to encourage the energy market.

Im thinking long term here for when the price of energy goes up higher than what you can possibly earn by spending it, what would be the point of even playing then, if by playing you are suffering a net loss?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:22

#11

stanfy

Legacy Username

great point vabjekf

I was just thinking that as well, it should open up one more equip slot (3/4) and one trinket slot (1/2)

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:26

#12

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Removing elevator costs will

Removing elevator costs will change the crown-to-CE ratio to something rather close to infinity. It completely unlinks CE prices from any crown equivalent, resulting in mass inflation as the hardcore farmers will collect crowns nonstop, and then buy out all the regular-priced CE. I hear the beta had CE prices of over 20,000 crowns per pack of 100 CE. (I imagine the experimental Energy Surge Weekend didn't help.)

Use your Mist to earn crowns through Clockworks runs. If for some reason that is not profitable, you can instead spend your Mist crafting items for sale, as the prices for items is loosely linked to the cost of the energy to build them.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:53

#13

Algol-Sixty

Removing elevator costs will

I guess I was assuming a "gate subscription" would be optional. And, since reviving/crafting/etc. would still need CE, people would still want to buy CE packages.

Having player pay a flat fee to OOO to pay for gates would have the exact same impact on the player economy as players paying a variable amount to OOO to buy CE to pay for gates. People can and do both buy CE with RL money and with crowns. A "gate subscription" also wouldn't be much different than having multiple accounts to harvest mist. Actually, multiple accounts to harvest mist could be worse, since you are limited to playing 24hrs/day on a subscriber account, but it would be possible to have far more than 24 accounts harvesting mist to use for crafting/upgrade slot purchases/etc.

Clearly, such a subscription would need to be priced fairly high, but I suspect that a lot of people would buy it just for the peace of mind of knowing they can play, even if it would have been cheaper to just buy CE packages.

The problem with crowns having no real value is a separate problem. A very serious problem, but "gate subscriptions" doesn't really change it.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 13:59

#14

redten

Legacy Username

God no

I would stop playing if they made it subscription.

So would a lot of other people.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:20

#15

stanfy

Legacy Username

someone missed the point

Nobody is saying sub-only..the current mechanics would stay, it would just remove the elevator costs, and open up one trinket slot, and one extra weapon slot for people who pay the 10$ a month....

You would still be able to play for "free" or pay as you go with bought points, the only benefit would being able to keep going down in dungeons for free, and extra equip slots, maby get a small allowance of CE every month, that's it.....

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:47

#16

Dirt

Legacy Username

@Gigafreak

I hear the beta had CE prices of over 20,000 crowns per pack of 100 CE.

I think it topped out at 22k. Highest I recall, anyways.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:47

#17

nearo

Legacy Username

If you could farm crowns for 24 hours like that,

Regardless of price for sub, sub players would suddenly have so many more crowns, causing CE to inflate, screwing over all non Sub players.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:15

#18

Theonebackthere

Too cheap for too much of a reward...

10$ is way too little to be able to play without worrying about elevator costs. I would say 20-25$ would be reasonable for what you're getting.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:14

#19

Algol-Sixty

Regardless of price for sub,

Regardless of price for sub, sub players would suddenly have so many more crowns, causing CE to inflate, screwing over all non Sub players.

Pssst! That is exactly what happens right now when people pay OOO real money to get CE... People who pay for the game get *WAY* more crowns because they don't have to buy CE with crowns. ZOMG!

Say that OOO wanted to provide a "gate subscription" that allowed up to 8 hours of play per day. Say that people burn about 100CE per hour, I think that is fairly close. You also get 100ME right now, so OOO would be giving out only 700 CE per day. Well, in a 30 day month, that is 700*30=21000CE. Well, that's about the same as the $50 CE package right now! So, you claim that "regardless of the price", it would screw everyone over, but guess what! OOO already effectively offers such a package!

Of course, most subscribers wouldn't play 8 hours a day, 7 days a week. Some would, but most would just want the peace of mind knowing that they can always play more if they want to. Indeed, I suspect the average buyer of a "gate subscription" would usualy not play even 4 hours per day and average at most 2 hours per day over the week.

Really, only OOO has the numbers to tell whether such a "gate subscription" would likely increase their revenue or not. They once offered a somewhat similar idea on their puzzle pirate game, complete with some (equivalent of) CE per month with the package.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:01

#20

Matuse

Legacy Username

The difficulty would be in

The difficulty would be in giving subscription people a benefit without having that benefit turn into infinite crowns.

If you subbed for 1 month and got free elevators, you could churn up MASSIVE amounts of crowns, then end the sub, and use the crowns to CE yourself into infinity. Net result would be OOO getting far less money.

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Will Sega implement subscription at all?