Spiral Knights - So, I'm pissed.

So, I'm pissed.

28 replies [Last post]

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 21:49

Dream-Harmonics

If you didn't play the preview there's pretty much no point you reading this because you'll have no clue what I'm talking about.

Yes as you guessed it (or not, maybe you thought I was creating a topic about being heavily intoxicated? Anyway), after reading through a good 10-20 topics I was getting more and more aggravated with how people think the game should change and I was almost talking to my screen (derp) saying "How in the hell will that make the game better!?", I just didn't want Spiral Knights to be another game that I played for a few weeks only to throw it on my pile of "games-not-to-play" because of the failing mechanics of the game, community etc.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but some of the suggestions would surely kill the game, call me narrow minded, but I preferred the preview over any stage of release (with the exception of the first week or so because that was exciting too), do you guys remember the amazing community, the friendly players, the trust between us all, the close bond that the 200 or so players had?

This may not be very related but I've attempted to create a guild exclusively available to preview players to re-construct and re-bind the connections that were so strong in the previews which were almost shattered after a few weeks into release due to the departure of many willing Spiral Knights; after the major crafting patch (and the following patches that drastically changed the gameplay) and the way Three Rings sold out to Steam which caused - as I see it - most of their dedicated and loyal players to be thrown off by the outrageous changes and because of this, you want to guess how many responses I received for my efforts at making this guild? 0, that's right it means either 0 preview players visited the guild section of the forums or 0 of the preview players play it anymore (with some exceptions).

Now I hope I don't sound like I'm bitching about no preview players joining the guild because quite frankly it's not my choice whether someone joins a guild or even plays the game for that matter but, I'm bitching about how the public release not only surprised me but split apart from the epicness of the preview and carried on in the other direction leaving the essence and feeling of the preview (with it's players), for dead.

When I went to revisit Spiral Knights after god knows how long, I was filled with a warm, open approaching feeling when I heard that login screen music and was reminded of the first time I played Spiral Knights thanks to an awesome loyal Spiral Knight and wanted to start up and refurbish everything I had sadly left behind due to the above reasons. I logged in only to find that prices were at an all time low, I had logged into haven 30 because there were that many players being held in the game due to the "sell-out" phase and a bunch of other small things at which point I just thought to myself "This isn't this Spiral Knights I remember...".

Now I know that everything changes, nothing lasts for ever yadda yadda, but the preview was something special and no one but us preview players can ever know what that felt like and I just wanted the game to carry that essence through the public release and beyond.

So, are there any of you guys out there that want to start up our own community filled with the old players that know what the preview was like and want to keep that feeling going? I know I really want to, Spiral Knights could have been one hell of an awesome game had it not been publicly released so quickly and had such a downfall so early into release, seeing all of this has only made me more eager to revive all of the dead memories along with all of the other things lost after the downfall.

If you're interested, you can find a post titled "Preview players, heed my call! Groundbreaker is recruiting!" or something along the lines if you want to join the guild or just drop me a message in-game and chat about the good ol' days (a group of us would be even cooler), anything at all!
Let's keep this spirit going!

Thanks for reading, I take full responsibility for eye injuries after reading this post, I just wanted to cover as much as I could so I could give you a better perspective, anyway, enough reading. Go to sleep? Rest your eyes? Make a sandwich? Get yourself a drink? Reply? Don't reply?

Thanks, Lew/Razorlined.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:23

Dirt

Legacy Username

I like what the game has

I like what the game has become. I've found a great guild with people I've known (not really on a personal level) since the Preview, so I haven't been looking for one.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:56

Matuse

Legacy Username

Normally people wait several

Normally people wait several years before putting on the rose colored glasses about "how things used to be and you young whippersnappers have screwed it all up". I guess with technology moving so fast these days, so does reminiscing.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:44

Twiddle

the way Three Rings sold out

the way Three Rings sold out to Steam which caused - as I see it - most of their dedicated and loyal players to be thrown off by the outrageous changes and because of this...

I came here about a month before Three Rings went to steam. About the only things caused by the move to steam was temporarily lower CE prices, a larger playerbase, and a flamethrower glitch (which they fixed.)

- edit -

It also caused a lot of people to complain about oilers and quicksilvers, so it may have indirectly caused the hardcore nerf of those monsters.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:52

Madadder

this will be about as

this will be about as successful as those advocating the roll back of the 5/17 patch

the past is gone... no attempt to revive will work, nothing like the preview u got to be a part of will ever happen again

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:58

Pupu

Legacy Username

Yes, we know, everything is better before it becomes popular.
Hipsterdance~

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:07

Dream-Harmonics

Hmm, I see Three Rings did a

Hmm, I see Three Rings did a good job at breaking the game :/ Apparently no one gives a f**k about the preview or the fact that we helped craft the game anymore, cept' me and a few others I know.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:18

Shoebox

I complained about complaining before it was cool.

The way you sold out to the General Discussion to make your guild popular is ruining this forum.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:32

Madadder

you are correct razor we

you are correct razor we don't care but that's because that was a lot time ago. Since then,SK has got through much change, you can't expect us to worship the ground you walk for what you did several months ago

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:37

Pupu

Legacy Username

I have never heard this before!

Go join the people that hated the change from '09 preview to '10 preview.
The Spiral Gods Alliance guys and others.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 06:09

#10

Eradicats

Legacy Username

I like how trying to get a

I like how trying to get a larger playerbase for the game is apparently selling out.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 07:13

#11

zenstar

Legacy Username

Wow. Talk about elitist. I do

Wow. Talk about elitist.
I do agree with one thing from your post: "... (derp) ..."
It's like you think that OOO made the game just for you and their attempts to actually make money with it are pure evil! OMG! More people? They sold out!
Or maybe the game is just loads of fun and lots of people want to play it?
Seriously: chill out a bit and enjoy the current incarnation of the game and all the content that'll be coming our way. If you don't like it anymore then find something you do like and play that. No use crying over spilt milk.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 07:19

#12

Volebamus

I like that TC's getting told

I like that TC's getting told by people who were actually here before him.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:02

#13

Morpholomew

Legacy Username

The problem here is that

The problem here is that you're making it sound kind of like you feel entitled to something, even if you don't mean it that way. In this case, as if you feel entitled to having the gameplay be like it was during Preview.

I read your first post thinking "yeah, a good player community is always great to have, with a good base of trust between everyone", but at the same time I know such things are only because the player base in Preview was small, people who violated that trust were tossed aside and the ones who stuck to that trust spent months building on that.

Do you miss how it was during Preview moreso for the gameplay, or moreso for the players?

Adressing the player side of things: of course you feel like Three Rings "broke the game" once it went public. The trust you built with Beta players disappeared because they went and invited their friends and played with them more than with other Beta players (even if they had become friends in the process, due to the fact that the friends they invited still had to learn the game and perhaps they knew each other longer). And there's the fact that a lot of newcomers play a game only for a little while, or want it to be easy, or beg for crowns and CE... that's just how it happens with MMOs though and luckily here it is all concentrated at the Auction and mostly in the single-digit Havens. Also, don't forget that many Preview players are still there and there are a number of guilds from back then that still stand strong. Dunno if there are Preview-players-only guilds though, but you could look for one if you prefer.

Adressing the gameplay side of things: that's why games usually have a Preview in the first place, they want to make it better for when it goes public. This often means big changes between a Beta and Public version of a game. The only way you could change that would be if you were part of the development team, and even then there would be only a small chance because there is no "I" in "team".

So if your concern is regarding the attitude you perceived with Preview players: look for them, or build such relationships with new players.

If your concern is regarding the gameplay: suck it up. You're not entitled to anything. You got into the Preview knowing it would go public, because that's what a Preview is there for.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:08

#14

Cobaltstarfire

The things you seem to be

The things you seem to be angry about and miss (the exclusivity of relatively few players in a game) are going to be lost, it's unavoidable. You talk like growth is a bad sign for a game, but what you apparently want (a stagnant game that never changes or gets new players) will kill the game. I don't really see why this is a good thing. If you don't like what it's become atleast try to make a constructive post about it.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:52

#15

LeonAlabard

Legacy Username

Nope, I'm not a "preview

Nope, I'm not a "preview player", I found this game via SegaPass (before the Steam explosion), but I know how you feel, I played a bunch of games before their releases, with small communities full of nice, non-ragequit players.
But then, the game became popular, a bunch of random people appeared, changes had to be made to maintain the game stable, items and features had to be modified/removed because of some bastards that found a way to abuse them, old friends abandoned the game (for their own reasons), most of the original staff and the friendly and playful GMs left the game too... And then, I found myself alone in a memory of a game I used to like.

But, that's how nostalgia works: Past > Present. (and yeah, you [kinda] can "feel nostalgic" for something even for something you played a year ago)
As the time passes, things will change, old players will leave, new players will appear, your "golden era" will become nothing but a memory... And you will eventually dislike all of this.

Is the game better now? Is the game better before the public release/Sega/Steam? There is no official answer, since everybody will give a different answer for that, so it's useless to care too much about that.

The best I can say is: Find some friends, play with them, have some fun, ignore the changes and the ragestorm of prices and craft and energy and stuff.
Your guild is a good way to do that... except the "preview players only" thing. Your restriction is kinda ok (it's your guild anyway), but don't try to "brute force" your nostalgia in the game (this won't work), just play it like any other game.

If you can't do that, well, abandon the game. If you can't have fun here, then there's nothing you can do.
It's better to have a memory of something totally awesome, over a memory of something that used to be awesome.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 19:56

#16

Dirt

Legacy Username

@monkeyman135

You don't care about all the play-testing and bug finding we did? Well, I am sorry we helped make the game better. Also, it wasn't that long ago. The game was in Preview condition several times longer than it's actually been out.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 07:29

#17

Kawaiido

WOW, OP you sound like an

WOW, OP you sound like an elitist, a hipster AND trying to outdo the Sonic(bunnies) all in one post. *claps*

If you ask me, the ones who left were perhaps fair-weather gamers of this at best. Now I wasn't here for the preview and sure they "sold out" but they're a BUSINESS and if they don't make gobs of MONEY your game won't be here much longer since they can't keep up sever costs.

Edit: language - H.

EDIT: Sorry, I wasn't trying to bypass the filter. It was used in the term of overzealous fan who's intolerant of other people's takes. Not the offensive term for those men who love other men.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 06:50

#18

Fallout

ducks?

well, like you said, the majority of preview players already have well established guilds, ones with many testers I'd join it if i wasn't keeping history alive and didn't have 5 other guilds to join and quit before yours. And really my guild is already keeping alive what last preview was to me; dead, lost and encouragement to make my guildies play again. its not that 0 preview players play anymore; i read your post in guild recruitment, heck i never quit playing since the start, its just that many of them don't want to leave their group of friends in their guild.

Go join the people that hated the change from '09 preview to '10 preview.
The Spiral Gods Alliance guys and others.

Tant; sniff* make it sound so harsh. But its true though =D....=|.....D=.....-_- *leaves*

also monkeyman, 'you taking over godofsnipes role now? sorry your not doing a good enough job. your put-downs are to mainstream; be indie man.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 07:55

#19

Metaphysic

Legacy Username

I've been in several dozen

I've been in several dozen beta tests and these whiny threads always pop up by some alpha/beta/preview player who claims that the game used to be better when the community was smaller. Everybody knew each other, people were nicer, the game was better and rainbows and unicorns flew around giving puppies to children.

Grow up.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 08:28

#20

ConeyKrab

Legacy Username

Oh brother.

I came in with the Steam influx, and can see why you might find some members annoying, but nothing you can't deal with. I just play with a few friends who also joined in with me, and we don't really run with anyone else. Sorry if we've smashed up your small-town feel but it isn't yours to control, so look down at your pedestal and realize that you have no ground to stand on. Developers need money and publicity, but the minute new people come in and say "this game isn't bad" does not make the game an auto-sellout. If you want to just play with these people do what I did with my friends and just add them and or make a guild and just run together. You'll live.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 08:49

#21

Hollafamer

Burn him to the ground!!

Did I miss the mob I had my pitchfork and everything. lol ^ why don't you guys set up a noose and hang the poor kid.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 09:06

#22

novareid

Legacy Username

This pretty much sums it up.

This pretty much sums it up. You were part of a select few people that helped immensely improve the game. I think that you should just be glad that you had a chance to participate in the preview.

I don't agree with everything that TRD has done with Spiral Knights, but in retrospect, the 5/27 update (the one that made everyone angry) was completely justified seeing as how there are so many new players.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 12:29

#23

Quasirandom

The main cause of nostalgia

The main cause of nostalgia threads like this is not that the game changed, but that you changed. What was once new and exciting has become old and mundane to you. That would still be true even if whatever changes you disliked had never occurred.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 13:22

#24

gell

Legacy Username

I've played in enough

I've played in enough betas/previews (but not SK's beta) to know that the betas/previews are almost always more fun than the full release. This isn't to say that the full release is a worse game at all!

The reasons are basically unknowingly outlined by you in the OP. The community for a closed/limited test are always tight and everyone is learning and growing at the same time, and there's a sense of community, helping each other out, etc. Another thing is that the bugs/glitches you find are usually funny when they aren't game-breaking (often in the form of an extremely overpowered move like how you could spam bombs endlessly in SK preview with no charge time).

I've known quite lot of people who left a game after beta because 1) they wanted to give the game time to grow from its current state, 2) the game sold out by selling pay2win stuff, or 3) the player just enjoyed overpowered weapons and glitches more than the real game. That last one is the problem I have with most old players that return with sadness or complaints. They are basically hoping the game is something that would make the game worse, or they don't realize, as stated earlier, that any preview event is inherently closer and more community driven than a full release.

So you might disregard my entire post since you qualified your own by saying it doesn't apply to me, someone who didn't play in SK's preview (only right at release). However, the thoughts you have are ones I've seen across a handful of games, and I believe it to a real concern based on false situations. Those false situations being ones I mentioned above, about preview communities in general, and how games often change for the better but people tend to prefer nostalgia over change.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:22

#25

Dream-Harmonics

Okay, responses: Quizzical -

Okay, responses:

Quizzical - I may have changed a little, but I've never once found SK "old and mundane" and if those changes I had disliked had never occurred I wouldn't be making this thread now would I? I'd be playing the game and enjoying it because none of it would have ever happened.

Shoebox - I was not trying to make my guild popular nor ruin the forums, I was simply attempting to see how many people still even cared about the preview and the guild thing was merely an optional path just in case anyone wanted to help me maintain this whole preview "essence" the guild being the tool of connection because it's a damn lot easier to keep up with each other when in a guild as I'm, sure you know.

-----------
Look, I can see where you're all coming from and I think some one you got the wrong impression from what I was trying to convey.

I loved the preview more than the release by far but I'm not trying to be Elitist and all like "You must play the game this way because I think it's the best this way which means everyone else should too.", I have no idea how you think this has any relations to being hipster though.

It's easy to say "Ignore the price changes, crafting costs etc. And enjoy the game as it is" which in my eyes is kind of a lazy response (however I appreciate everyone's efforts at replying) because you know I'm not going to read that and instantly go "Oh he's right, I think I'm just going to enjoy the game now instead of bitching" but when crafting and making a profit are two vital parts to progressing through the game (imo) [Yes I know there is socialising, guilds and many other things to do I'm just stating what you mentioned] it's really kind of difficult to sell your Flame souls (just using Flame Souls as one of the prime examples) for what is now a 1/4 of their original price.

Now call me what you want and I know I'll get a million replies ripping into me about how this idea is sucky and there are 50 million flaws and how you hate me, but this would shut me the hell up forever: I would suggest Three Rings create a "Preview Players Only" Server which is segregated from the current server allowing the veterans, people who just miss the preview and nostalgia-filled moaners like me (probably just me in that category) to play with other preview players that enjoyed it just as much.

Less people on the "Preview Server" would cause the prices to shoot back up to what they once were restoring the rarity to the respective items, the players would be re-united again replenishing all of the trust, close bonds and friendliness etc. previously mentioned and the server would just re-balance the whole game for that specific server making it feel like the preview again.

The whole purpose of the separate server would be to encourage more previewers to re-join (hopefully), so it's not like OOO would loose any profit or anything because you need CE to do pretty much anything in SK so with more previewers playing on this server OOO would be gaining funds from those preview players who bought CE on the preview only server.

I know Three Rings would probably never do something like that because they're way too busy with their current agenda, but no doubt it would be the coolest thing to happen since sliced bread and (not to sound like a jerk or anything but) I think I speak on behalf of many other Spiral Knights when I say that.

Anyway, all I can do for now really is just stick around on SK and see what happens, try to find a way around the problems and hope OOO see my idea and pick up on it if they feel like they could take it somewhere.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:38

#26

Metaphysic

Legacy Username

Why do you think you're

Why do you think you're entitled to anything special for being a beta/preview player? You're the same as every other player and deserve no special treatment.

If you miss players that you got to know during the beta/preview, you have the option to put them on your friends list, join a guild with them, send them in-game mails, set up some kind of voice chat with them or any of a dozen other things.

The bonus of being a beta/preview player was that you got some kind of special energy deal when the game was released. Boom. Congrats. Stop asking for more.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:23

#27

Madadder

@Dirt

no, i dont care for a simple reason: you expect us to praise you for something that you were expected to do? that was the point of the preview, you tested the game, suggested improvements, you reported bugs... things that ought to happen naturally in a development phase of a game like this

even if i was a part of the preview era i wouldnt be a part of this. i would have done my part and humbly left things to change

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:45

#28

Njthug

In other news

I celebrated Pi day during the preview event GET ON MY LEVEL =)

Oh and I had Apple Pie

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So, I'm pissed.