I just killed the boss after a tiring battle and the two levels before it was a bit too hard for any new T2 guy. Those rocket launchers cannot be destroyed like the wheel launchers (or whatever you call that) in the Vanaduke dungeon. Those rockets are just too overpowered, every hit of it breaks your shield to another colour and with 4 hits your shield breaks. Even with a Wise Owlite which is supposed to be strong against it it does that. The status trap path in the first level of the Factory are annoying too, if you are accidentally shocked by one, you stop and by the time you recovered from the spasm, the other status traps already activated. All of my teammates died because of that. And also, the Scuttlebots bullet seem to hit me across the glowing barriers when it is raised but I can't hit them. In the Boss level, when both bosses decides to shoot lasers, you usually get hit because you can only raise the barrier to one side. From my experience, this new Boss levels are definitely harder the JK levels and offer less reward.
So what are your opinions about the new boss level? Do you find them too challenging or is it okay the way it is?
Ironclaw Munitions Factory - A bit too challenging?
The rockets do a bit too much damage, and their explosion radius is much bigger than what their animation has you believe, but other than that, I didn't have too many complaints about the new area. The missiles shouldn't be taking a quarter to half of your (read: my) health, even with full Vog. That's just my opinion, though.
Plus, in a bullet hell style boss fight, the rapidly respawning scuttlebots get in too many cheap shots. I was happily hacking away at the vulnerable boss when one spawned and hit me with shock before I could even react. I wouldn't mind them so much if they dropped hearts, but the way it is now, they're just an annoyance and one more thing that the players need to keep track of, never mind keeping the gates switched at the right time and avoiding all the bullet spam. They should either drop goodies, or just be removed. Is that too much to ask?
To avoid copy/pasting what I wrote elsewhere. It is fine as it is. It would be nice to get more forge spark chances or higher crown/heat ratio to compete with JK.
I only played through the stage 2 times and 2/3 (I had to go before boss). I AM five star equipped but the weapons I relied on wouldn't make much difference, Leviathan is a Tempered Calibur there and Silversix could be replaced with any elemental gun. My armor was just bomber armor so no sword bonuses. So as long as the upper tier nerfs apply, that setup is equal to the equivalent 3* items for that depth.
That being said, the first time was hard, and unforgiving. But should you expect your first time at any stage to go super great? Nope. And the boss? Even worse, 40+20+10+5 revive and then a friend had to get up at 20 to save me.
But I learned things after getting ripped to shreds on my first time that when I came back the second time, I was able to work with a friend to do it quickly and easily. No deaths (from me) period. That's not to say I never got hurt, but the heart boxes were always in the right place at the right time.
I'm sure its not nice if you have constant lag, but barring that, its about your surroundings and your teammates. Knowing how you and they will affect things is key in the levels and in the boss.
P.S. There are buttons that turn off rockets at certain spots. So that's just like FSC, instead of destroying wheels, you press a button after you passed them anyway.
Maybe I played one too many mario games as a wee lad? It's all about timing. I found most of it challenging in a fun way, so it didn't seem too hard.
The only part where I had trouble was the floor shock trap. That part needs fixed. I can see someone being forever stuck on it. More "islands" need added so that you can stop and take a break, or make the duration of the trap less effective. Being shocked literally every second most likely means death. This is the only part I'd call bad game design.
As for the boss, meh, kind of boring. I'm not that interested in it. I did a lot of standing around.
My biggest complaint is when a team mate gets hit by a rocket next to me and I die. Also, when someone explodes the red rocket-blocks, and again, I die. The range on those things is way too big imo.
Also, the first stage feels harder than the second for me and has way less heart boxes.
No it's not too hard. You can always make a single person go at a time who will then turn off the missiles for the other 3. I think the difficulty level is perfect.
Not. at. all.
Brains on, be careful, avoid hits and get the timings right - solves!
OOO please don't fall for whines about hard levels or bosses. There are enough people who like the challenge. This was very fun, you have to play carefully and find good solutions. It's fine, if there are some easy mode bosses like Snarbolax and even Jelly King is not that challenging. Most levels are not hard at all, at least if you don't act like a mad man and avoid hits.
The new levels, leading to the Twin Boss are something new. It's great to check out new ways of playing and this is what keeps me paying for this. Updates like this show the dedication developers are putting into the game - that is AWESUM SAUCE!
Please, please don't fall for the trivialisation trap. Keep the easy parts, add more challenging stuff. Great!
Not difficult, but different.
Much of the Factory is navigating various traps that you cannot simply go around like in other parts of the game. You've got to spend more time watching the pattern and planning your (the level actually allows for this quite well). Once you see how those rockets will work you'll be dancing around them in no time.
For the shock trap, you can stand where the gates opened and watch it cycle a few times before you go. This way you have an idea of the timing of the traps. If you have one person that's good at it they can run ahead and disable the rockets. Always move forward. If someone goes down, do not fetch them. Use the Party Button ahead to teleport them forwards
The rockets, like the wheels in FSC, do not appear to be something you're not meant to be constantly blocking. Both will shred a shield and are very avoidable. Both can also be used to your advantage in hurting monsters.
The boss is all teamwork. If everyone runs in and does their own thing then it can be very painful. Have a team working properly (read: switch-master) and you'll breeze though.
I like the challenge, I just don't think you get a large enough reward. :p
these levels remind me of Mario :D
My first run to the twins was a solo run (not meant to be, as I joind a party, but was kicked out before I had loaded the level..
I started at the terminal. So I did the whole second half of the tier.
Died only once, and that was on the boss..
Did I mention that I just love this new levels + boss.
The reward of the levels themselves seems lower than that of the Royal Jelly's Palace, but other than that I have no complaints.
My second run of it is much more better although I still think the boss takes too long to kill, I never timed it but I think it takes nearly as long as Vanaduke. I am not complaining about it being too hard, I like challenging things, it's just that it gives too little reward for such a challenging level. JK is easier and offers more reward. And also, the rockets don't seem to hit monsters, monsters are only hurt by the explosions made when the rocket hit the walls.
You must be doing something wrong if he takes you that long. The Roarmulus took me about three minutes the last time I fought it with one other person, if that.
And also, the rockets don't seem to hit monsters, monsters are only hurt by the explosions made when the rocket hit the walls.
And your shield. You can move quite a bit faster than the rockets. You can use them like impromptu explosive crates to deal some extra damage when you might have already been shielding an attack anyway.
I'm pretty sure the rockets can hit the monsters .. only observed it on boss depth tough, don't know about the lower depths since I was busy shielding and moving lol
go training to training hall i run trougth with lags without deaths and i res 2 ppls.. jk is harder.
If you mess up the timing in any way (like dodging a rocket) on that shock path, that's pretty much it. You better just drop your shield and run through the damage and hope you survive because if you don't survive to the end of the path it's going to be a CE-costing revive for you... there's no safe islands to recover the timing and there's no way for anyone to come back down and get you up if you fall.
Otherwise might be okay, have to play more to know. Boss took -forever- but on the first time that's to be expected. If an experienced duo can really kill him in just a few minutes that'll be all right.
After soloing the munitions factory with a spiral demo set, a brute jelly shield, a super blaster, and a Kamerin (and dying 4 times, all on the boss), I think the difficulty is not bad. My only complaint is that the explosion radius on those rockets is a little big. Also, the boss has a LOT of health. Took me about an hour to defeat the boss.
I will agree that the first level feels harder than the second level.
-edit-
When I think about it, the first level is harder than the second level because the first level has a lot of small rooms with T2 gun puppies and retrodes in them. In a wide open area this would not be a problem, but in an enclosed area it causes bullet spam in a tiny space. What's worse, they are usually not alone. This means you have to dodge the bullets while evading/killing the other enemies that are also in the room. It's difficult (but not impossible) to do this. The second level is easier because it has more open spaces to fight in.
i played warcraft 3 funmaps earlier, escape maps too, and thats like this boss.
i really enjoyed this. only played it one time and didnt make the boss cause we hadnt have enough energie to revive cause we played before ^^
1 hour to defeat the boss, you are doing something wrong.
an elemental gun is very handy on this lvl, i use a storm driver/leviathan/combuster combination, which sees me through.
its like an old 8/16 bit console game, challenging with no remorse and all about timing, just take your time and watch for pattens.
BIIIIIG MONEY, BIIIIIG PRIZES
it's fun but too many effect is dropping my fps and lagging the hell outta me. What i thot i dodge ended up being walking into it. Also first death is the same as what someone said. a) i didnt know there would be a blast radius b)the explosion radius is a lot bigger than what the animation has you to believe. I was piggy backing someone with his shield up. I think they just need to clean up the map a bit in terms of how much stuff you have going on at once.
It was fun the first time, but after a while it seems far too easy.
I'm actually kind of disappointed that we waited so long for this patch...especially in regards to the new guns. They shoot slower than the Proto Gun!
Duo'd it last night, dying once in the 2 levels leading up to the boss (messed up the timing on the shock path x_x), and once more during the boss fight. Took us a little while to figure out what we were supposed to do, but once we did, the boss wasn't too much trouble. Just took us a long time to get the timing figured out for each stage and to get the rockets to land appropriately.
Good communication goes a long way if you're in a party, and makes things considerably easier. I think the tuning is just right and we had a lot of fun. Only problem that really arose is that on slower computers, all the projectiles flying everywhere caused a serious performance hit (even with the details set to Low). That was the most challenging thing to deal with.
After another run, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn't really think it was that hard any more and I managed to get a Pulsar. :)
The rockets do way, way, way too much damage for a T2 character, and their hitbox is slightly bigger than the rocket itself. It was really frustrating trying to move through them and constantly being struck despite trying to avoid.
The first time i went through, I would agree. The gremlin factory is way too difficult and should be patched down... but then after my second run, i realize that it is all bullet patterns. Timing and puzzle solving along with micromanaging. That is what i really like about this dungeon.
Now in terms of the rockets doing too much damage, i think its built like that, the programmers dont want you to be able to run through an entire puzzle. they want you to be precise and do it the right way. although i do scream at the computer when i lose 4 health bars because of one stinking rocket, i think the dungeon is better for it.
Now onto the Roarmulus twins. Damn. That boss fight was difficult. Spent 2000 energy trying to beat it. I think one problem with the boss fight is that there is a few lag issues. Too much happening. It could be just my computer, but I fought Snarbly and Jelly King just fine with absoultely no lag or performance problems. Also, I think the crawlers are a bit much. Yes, i defintely think that there should be some fodder so you have to keep moving, but four of them at once seems a bit extreme, especially with the amount of damage they do and the shock status effect they can deal. Other than that, I think it is a pretty exciting boss and a welcome change to the dungeon world. It is defintely harder than Jelly king, for jelly king's dungeon is only a hack and slash, in my opinion compared to gremlin factory.
All in all, i believe the only reason why my team and i died alot is because of poor communication and lack of focus on trying to dodge the patterns and more on just ttrying to hit random switches, hoping they would work (I got really pissed at one guy on our team). I died about 8 times in total during that entire run. 5 of those times was on the boss. Everyone else died about the same number as me, give or take a life. One more thing, shock armor is IMPERATIVE! IMPERATIVE! IMPERATIVE! Shock armor is. i think i would have done alot better with more shock resistance.
and in case your wondering, me and my friends did manage to beat it. Luckily, for the sake of me not throwing my laptop at a wall.
i claim to be a pro at the boss after 7 times doing it, i will gladly take you through if you want, IGN complexmuffin,send me a tell
i can give you some protips too :)
Two friends and I worked through this last night; we're all equipped pretty high (4* or better all around) and found the two lead-up levels to be a challenge, partly due to the structure, and partly due to lag on one party member's part. In general, though, I can see the way they've structured things - there's timing puzzles, there's battle points, there's a bit of everything to keep players on their toes.
I agree that the shock trap path needs adjusted. With the missiles and the timing of the activation I think it got everyone, and our party member had to use CE to revive himself as there was no way for anyone to get back to save him when he died.
As for the boss fight itself: loads of fun. We puzzled it out fairly quickly, then had a great time scrambling around and were genuinely feeling like we had achieved something when we finished it. (Alas, we didn't get victory music out of the deal...)
The only issue I really have has been stated by alot of people already. The AoE of the missles is larger then the animation shows. So it either needs to be scaled down to match the animation or the animation needs to be enlarged to match the area. Though there were a few times I'd take damage from a rocket that didnt explode but clipped me with a wing tip as it flew by...that was odd and annoying to say the least. But all in all it is a great set of levels and hope to see more bosses/levels of this calibur
two parallel missiles break the shield because of the aoe...
but anyway, i think its just fine...
once we get used to it it will be like... bleh....
boss is easy in my opinion.... scuttlebots take my hp down more than the roar twins....
I love anything that makes this game difficult. Awesome job OOO.
I love this new boss. Though I made the mistake of trying to kill both at the same time with my friends, I was wondering how one would need to kill both bosses. Personally this boss is more easier than Royal Jelly, since this boss is about timing and dont really get hit. Just have one guy do the switches, and the other players protect them from the endless spawning mobs after you make one of the puppies start to move. Only problem, is that its easy to grief intentionally and unintentionally (especially when you have a guy who loves hitting switches). The Spark trap is annoying and easy party wipe, and the missiles having a large AoE that can cause death and breaking of shields if someone is too close or even dead.
I think the difficulty level is fine, it's about figuring out the timing. My main concern is that based off 2 runs yesterday, the Ironclaw Munitions Factory does not seem to be as rewarding as the Royal Jelly Palace. If anything the wealth payout should be greater because it is more difficult (risk vs. reward). With energy costs back on the rise, if reliable numbers come up showing that this boss stratum is not as profitable as the Royal Jelly Palace the Ironclaw Munitions Factory runs the risk of becoming dead content after the novelty wears off and the majority of the player base already has all the equipment they want from the bark modules. Which is a shame because the place is challenging and fun.
Upon soloing it for the second time, I think it's difficulty is pretty good. Managed to die only once on the boss.
There is one unfair attack though. The double incini-laser. That's an absolute nightmare to dodge.
I understand it's a matter of timing, but when I'm running this I'm getting hit constantly from things that look like they didn't connect! and if the zones of effect are different than what's displayed, then I would like to take more than 2 hits to die.
I really wish I was exaggerating. 2 hits and I'm out.
I have died 4 times in the last run alone and have no idea what killed me on each of those. (the other 8 deaths that run were simply my incompetence... yeah no one else to blame for that)
I'm stacking armor that resists elemental, and it seems to do diddly against anything here. one hit and I'm instantly down to 1 health.
Apart from that Ii do love the puzzle aspect, and it's a neat run (I think. I still haven't cleared the first floor of it... so frustrating...)
I think you died from those rockets. The rockets has a bigger damage radius then the animation shows, so if you are standing close to a wall and a rocket hits that wall, the big blast radius of it will cause you damage. Next time when you are near to wall where rockets hit, shield or you are going to get hurt. In fact, in Ironclaw Munitions Factory where rockets fly everywhere, you have to spend over half of the time shielding (unless you are really good at dodging stuff).
What star of gear are you using? With a vitapod (8) and Dusker(which doesn't resist elemental), it still takes 2-4 rockets to kill me.
The Ironclaw Munitions Factory brought me a fortune's worth of sheer amusement. Deadly rockets, shock panels and quicksilvers, and the scuttlebot's revenge and the boss itself (or, themselves). This is one of the greatest updates I've seen. Unlike your usual hack 'n' slash levels you have to stop up to inspect the bullet patterns and make a run for it when there's an opening. This was a great challenge and I had great fun running through this. Big props to Three Rings on this one.
However, there is a flaw or two I'd like to point out.
First of all, the infamous rockets. Their blast radius is bigger than the animation suggests. Take great caution to these, especially when dodging alongside party members. If they get hit, they screw you over in the process. Like suggested earlier I would like to have the animation enlarged, or if it calls for a nerf have the blast radius reduced to fit the animation.
Second off, the shock-grates. Now, before you go about getting the wrong idea, I'm not talking about them being too hard to navigate through, for they are, in fact, one of the easiest parts in the entire Ironclaw Munitions Factory. I can see people complaining about this because of the animation. With all the other grates you see the mist/gas/fire disappear gradually after the grate stops spitting it out - it vanishes from the bottom. They implemented a similar effect to the shock-grates but it doesn't really fit here. When it stops, the animation continues for a little longer before it disappears, but by then the grate you're standing on is preparing to shock you. I suggest they fix the animation for the shock-grates to stop the animation the moment the effect stops, otherwise people will remain confused and make the same mistakes others are. Because of this I started walking into it with my shield to see if the effect stopped, despite the animation still going.
My final complaint is that this area isn't rewarding you for the challenge it gives. I know it isn't as much of a hack 'n' slash as the Royal Jelly Palace, but in difficulty the Ironclaw Munitions Factory is much less rewarding in income. I have also yet to see any Forge Sparks from the treasure boxes which saddens me. Maybe I'm just unlucky, though? But regardless, you'd expect this area to have a much greater income than the Royal Jelly Palace for the challenges it gives you that are different from most levels in the game. The greater the risk, the greater the reward, no?
TL;DR - Great update, I loved it, but it has a few flaws that could use some looking into. Good job, Three Rings.
I agree with you Shidara especially the part with the rockets and the low rewards! The low reward of it means that people will probably stop playing it after they obtain the new equipments because of its difficulty.
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The low reward of it means that people will probably stop playing it after they obtain the new equipments because of its difficulty.
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I actually think this is great, and that the JK levels are the ones with a problem. This way, you're incentivized to play the Roarmulus area when you're trying to get a rare piece of equipment, and after that, you're encouraged to play the normal clockworks areas. With the JK levels' payouts the way they are, you're always encouraged to play JK whether you need the equipment or not. Those levels get played long beyond the point where they become boring simply because the payout's disproportionately high.
In order to get all of the equipment you can from roarmulus, you need to beat him 30-35 times. That seems like plenty.
To get every piece of equipment you can get with Bark Modules, including the second variants of the Catalyzer and Pulsar you will need a total of 115 Bark Modules. This means a total of 39 runs, assuming you always get 3 tokens a round. Assuming you start at B8F that's a total of 3,120 Energy. Starting at B13F by dropping into a party still costs a good 1,560 Energy to get all of it.
This is going to take a while.
Помойму уровни с боссом слишком сложны. У ракетниц слишком большой урон, успытания слишком долбанутые.
А при учете того что у меня пинг до американского тестового сервера игры "Мир Танков" был всего 100мс, а до вашего сервера "хрен знает" какой, такой что я успеваю закрыться щитом/увернуться из под удара врага, а потом через секунду огрести дамаг и переместиться в другое место - то о какой аркадности и маневрировании идет речь?!
И почему этот уровень так сильно лагает!?
Либо сделайте чтонибудь с пингом и лагами, либо уменьшайте сложность - так как я, казуальный и не только казуальный, задрот, не могу предсказать действий всех врагов, объектов и всех своих перемещений наперед и всеравно мне приходится уворачиваться в последний момент в надежде на то, что " я смогу опередить пинг", но обычно кончается это фигово....
This is the second time I see you type in this language, but allow me to inform you that this is the English forum. There are different forums for other languages, although I'm not certain there is one for yours. Until then I suggest you stick to English.
Honestly, I think it's totally fine as-is. I ran a group my first time, died about six times, learned my lesson, and solo'd it twice without incident. It's not that hard if you just take a second to breathe and think things through.
Unfortunately, since timing is crucial, laggy or slower machines might have problems, but it shouldn't be nearly as difficult as people are making it out to be. I love the level design and the thought put into it, and I really hope OOO does more like this in the future. :)
That was... Russian. Let's see what I can figure out with an auto-translator...
"This boss stage is too complicated, and the rockets deal too much damage. I have only 100ms ping to [World of Tanks?], another American game, but heck-knows what my latency is for this game, and it's stopping me from blocking and dodging enemy attacks. And why is the level so laggy!? Either fix the latency or simplify the level. I can't predict incoming attacks and hazards this far in advance, and when I try to outrun the ping, it doesn't end well...."
The problem, I think, is not that the munitions factory is systematically too hard. Rather, it's that it's randomly hard, as in, can you guess what is off your screen and about to shoot at you? Now, once you've been through it a few times, that probably won't be hard anymore, as you'll know what's off your screen shooting at you. But the first time, it is pretty nasty, and not in an interesting way. It reminds me of Zelda Twilight Princess, and in a bad way.
For the record, I got through the munitions factory in the first group I attempted it with. I did die once along the way, as apparently getting stuck in the middle of a chain of shock traps means instant death. And then later in the same run, I got the gold survivor title (clear tier 3 without dying), in spite of goofing by switching to a three star armor at Emberlight instead of four star (I don't have any five star gear), and then not realizing that until the run was over. I think there's some commentary about difficulty there somewhere.
The levels are lots of fun for us that've been hoping for more puzzle and timing. Albeit a bit easy. Definitely more fun for solo'ers and 2-3 groups. Pickup groups are terrible, 4 people trying to lead & no communication doesnt work anywhere.
Dodging is fun, the rocket damage area is too big or should be not as strong at the edges of the explosion and increase as you get closer to the explosion source.
Though, the lag was trying yesterday.
After a bugfixthis could be my favorite stratum
E: new gun and new sounds are (~_~)b
First time through the place, I died once on the first level, then once again on Roarmulus due to not being where I should.
Second time through, got beat the hell up in first level, then took switch control in Roarmulus and only had to heal a couple times.
Third to Fifth times through, first level still [tart]-slaps me now and again, but in Roarmulus I never use a single healing capsule. This, I think, is awesome. Unlike JK and Snarby which can have punishing RNG regardless of how often you run through it, Roarmulus punishes bad players and rewards smart ones.
If after being hit by a single missile, you go "This [crap] does too much damage!!!" Instead of "Wow, that hurt. I should avoid those at all costs." Then you didn't get the point of the missiles in the first place. Personally, I love the missiles, I love the challenge of this new area and boss, and I can't wait to see what new boss/zone ideas are in the mix.
I'm just really annoyed that I wasted 60 energy reaching a level that I randomly got kicked out of. I guess that run taught me a lesson though, when I KNOW the group is full of noobs just go solo. God they were terrible... I'm so mad at myself lol but it'd be less bad if the level didn't kick me out.
Anyway aside from that I went back and wound up soloing it since my group died off one by one. Their loss though, I got 4 tokens from the dogs. Also has anyone found any tokens in the boss level? I always find 1-2 Primal Sparks at the end of Jelly King's level and Snarbolax's too now that I think about it but with Roarmulus I'll find some lame materials like a Monster Bone. In a group this is just bad since some of the party is getting nothing while with Sparks, everyone gets some.
The rockets aren't hard, they are a NIGHTMARE!
Been there twice, died like HUNDRED times, always beacuse of the rockets.
How you can call these levels "easy", for Hell's sake...
Not sure if I want to go down there (to the Ironclaw factory) ever again... though I must admit I kinda wonder what it's like to go there with someone who actually KNOWS what he/she is doing, so I might give it another try one day and hope for a good group (or bother someone from the forums to go there with me :D :D :D ).
Yeah I agree that the new boss is much more complex. I hope that the developers continue to adjust any issues of balance and make the boss a bit less challenging.
As far as the puzzles and timing it was easy, but I see what you mean by the explosive power being a bit much for someone just getting there.
Maybe this boss is meant for more experienced knights, whereas royal jelly is for newer players.