Spiral Knights - Heavy Lag (not server lag)

Heavy Lag (not server lag)

5 replies [Last post]

Fri, 07/08/2011 - 20:41

invertigo

Legacy Username

So, today I noticed some problems with latency. Not the server variety of latency that people seem to think is happening with the influx of players. No, that's not it at all. My own, personal latency is what I'm talking about. For the record, I am using the stand-alone version of the game, not the browser version.

While sitting around Haven everything is fine. Arcade? Fine. Bazaar? Fine. Dandy, even. However, once I step foot inside a dungeon, or even sitting at the dungeon lobby before jumping on the elevator, my ping begins to climb. 200; 300; 400; 600; 800 -- and it will sit there for about twenty to thirty packets during a ping test before returning to its usual sub-100 ms ping. It does this for no reason. I won't even move my character on the screen and the ping will begin to fluctuate. Climbing one minute, and returning to normal the next, then repeating the process all over. Again, I am not doing anything on my end to tell Spiral Knights to send or receive any kind of new information. I'm not moving my character. I'm not checking my mail. I'm not loading the announcements. I am doing absolutely nothing and it just decides to download or upload information (what information, really?) all on its own.

The infuriating part is that while my connection may not be very good at all, terrible even, the game was not behaving like this just a short few days ago when I first began playing. My wife and I were able to play with relative ease through a few levels of the Clockworks and collect materials for new recipes we had purchased. No problem. Today? Not so much. The lag makes it relatively unplayable for one person, let alone two people trying to play together on the same network.

So I ask, what exactly is Spiral Knights trying to do that is soaking up so much bandwidth while sitting around in the dungeon lobby doing absolutely nothing? Position information? I haven't moved, and why would it need to spam it for thirty seconds anyway? Doesn't make any sense, NEXT SUGGESTION. Downloading new content? I thought the point of the stand-alone version was that it didn't have to download content while you play, so that doesn't make very much sense either.

Anyone have any idea? Staff? Maybe Jesus just doesn't want me to play.

Sat, 07/09/2011 - 02:59

Starlinvf

1. I'd like Details on your

1. I'd like Details on your testing method.
2. Any game will send constant updates back and forth, even when theres no player activity. Bursts in traffic are not unusual since theres still syncing, friends list (as one example), server quires, and other types of overhead that may have nothing to do with your current activities.
3. Its the start of the weekend, an increase in server load shouldn't be surprising in the least.

4. I'll leave your wild theories for someone else.... Because Jesus would want me to forgive you.

Sat, 07/09/2011 - 09:43

Dogrock

First thing I'd do is make

First thing I'd do is make sure a recent update to a security suite program isn't messing with the game. A small minority of users have suffered skyrocketing ping as a result of security conflicts.

This game has a habit of spamming UDP packets when something is interrupting the connection.

Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:00

invertigo

Legacy Username

Server lag would only affect

Server lag would only affect my ping to their server, not to any server. I thought I made it pretty clear what was happening in my previous post, but I guess you didn't bother reading it. No surprise there...

I run a simple ping test to google.com and watch the time it takes the packets to return. While idling inside a dungeon lobby the ping test begins to climb, upwards of 800 ms. However this didn't happen when I first began playing the game, even in dungeons. It does not happen while wandering around any part of Haven, and it does not happen while playing any other MMO I have tried, which includes World of Warcraft (I have been playing for several years now).

The ping fluctuates back and forth between normal and high every thirty seconds or so. What this means is that Spiral Knights, randomly, is using up a lot of bandwidth for no apparent reason. There has been no change made to my PC since I began playing a few days ago, other than recent patches to the game itself.

Is that clear enough for you to understand, Starlin? Or would you like me to write up some flash cards for you?

Edit:

"This game has a habit of spamming UDP packets when something is interrupting the connection."

What if the problem isn't on my end, and isn't on SK's end either? What if there's a problem somewhere along the line? Will it start spamming packets because of that? Does anyone know the address to run a tracert to? I would also like to mention that magically the game seems fine today. Zero changes on my end. Same exact test. Normal results.

Since you mentioned UDP packet spamming, if there is server lag will the client freak out because it's not receiving a response fast enough and begin spamming packets? I have never experienced something like this in any other game, but that would make some kind of sense. It seems like a pretty crappy method to use.

Sat, 07/09/2011 - 23:01

Starlinvf

@invertigo

Ouch, my ego. But since you missed the point entirely, what I'm getting at is you only discovered one side effect of another symptom, by accident, never did any follow up investigating that could had easily verified AND measured the amount of bandwidth thats being used during the spikes, followed by wild guessing about what the cause can and can't be, and the very fact that your using ping times to an unrelated server as your ONLY test method.... or should I make flash cards?

Next, your techie posturing to d0gr0ck only proves a lack of understanding of what you think your trying to explain. Even in your follow up you still haven't done the simple step of actually checking your bandwidth utilization to see whats happening.

And for the record, projectx.log tracks which instances you connect to as your play. However, you can't follow it all the way into Amazon's EC2 cloud since they block ICMP. Also, if you read up on UDP behavior, you'll understand why it could go nuts if you try to implement data reliability at a higher layer.

Sun, 07/10/2011 - 00:26

invertigo

Legacy Username

Wait, you had a point? You

Wait, you had a point? You could have fooled me.

My point is Spiral Knights likes to randomly use a lot of my available bandwidth for no apparent reason. No other game I play does this, so I was curious as to what exactly was going on. You seemed to think it was server congestion without ever explaining why. Let me help you out, here's how the rest of the universe handles server lag:

Server is congested. Packets have difficulty getting through and getting out. Your actions in the game lag as a result.

Here's how Spiral Knights apparently handles server lag:

Server is congested. Packets have difficulty getting through and getting out. QUICKLY, SPAM MORE PACKETS AND CHOKE THE BANDWIDTH.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "Hey, Invertigo, Spiral Knights uses a really inefficient method of sending and receiving data. It can cause a massive loss of available bandwidth because of all the redundant packet spam." instead of assuming everyone knows everything already? You'd think that if I already knew what the problem was I wouldn't have to bother coming to a forum and asking about it.

Using a ping test to a unrelated server shows, very simply, that Spiral Knights uses a lot of unnecessary bandwidth. As I mentioned before, in the rest of the universe your bandwidth is not choked when there is server lag, and your ping test to an unrelated server should be normal, despite the lag you may be suffering in the game. The fact that Spiral Knight's bandwidth problems are not constant lends to the theory that something unusual is going on. As it turns out, the way Spiral Knights handles lag is unusual and inefficient.

I believe what I used there may be referred to as "logic", although I'm sure it's a foreign concept to you. Regardless, I have my answers now. Thank you for your time.

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Heavy Lag (not server lag)