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Catalyzer general discussion (strats/damage values and stuff)

10 replies [Last post]
Mon, 07/11/2011 - 10:03
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii

how shoot i asplosion??///

I originally made this thread when I had just gotten a Biohazard lv10.

Well, now I have both a Neutralizer and Biohazard at lvl 10.

Stats

    Normal shot:
    - Fast fire rate
    - Slow projectile speed. Each upgrade increases the speed of projectiles!

    Charge shot:
    - 1 second to charge, with no CTR. The orb will always start circling from the top of the enemy and move counter clockwise, taking 3 seconds to do a full orbit around the enemy.
    - When it hits an enemy, it will make an orbiting charge that follows the enemy for 20 seconds. Because of animations and stuff, you can assume that the most you can ever tag is probably 9-10 by yourself.
    - Charge shots don't belong to anyone: If anyone with a catalyzer (either one!) shoots a 'tagged' enemy, all attached orbs will explode. This is actually kind of important - since shots don't belong to anyone, any damage modifiers you have don't affect it (penalties don't count, poison doesn't affect the charge damage).
    - Knockback is similar to a Valiance charge shot.
    -The explosion can interrupt enemies.

Neutralizer (normal) vs Biohazard (shadow : poison)

    - Neutralizer does Normal damage; Biohazard does shadow damage.
    - Their normal shots do the same damage, but Neutralizer's charge does slightly more damage.
    The tradeoff, of course, is that Biohazard can cause poison and does well vs slimes/gremlins (and loses damage vs fiends and undead), while Neutralizer had a wider range of monsters that it can deal full damage on and has no special effects.

Usage and strategies

    Mobility
    Honestly, I feel like the gun is a close range weapon. To make use of its fast attack speed and even make things easier to hit with charge attack, you might sometimes have to weave in close enough to an enemy to trigger their close range attack.

    Hitting enemies
    The biggest problem is really hitting enemies at all. If they have one, it WILL trigger the dodge response. You can take advantage of this though, by anticipating it.

    Gremlins, for example, dodge backwards when a bullet goes towards them, so you can aim a little behind a gremlin and it will dodge into your shot. Since its bullets move slowly, you can run behind your bullet, switch to a sword, and poke a hit in while they're coming out of their dodge ending lag.

    T3 Wolvers will teleport. You can run circles around a T3 wolver-gremlin danger room without getting hit just by keeping at least one bullet out and running behind it - they'll just keep teleporting.

    Shield robots will shield on the first shot, but if you shoot the charge attack after it, you can still tag them. I don't feel guns are a very efficient weapon on those though.

Charge attack tactics

    Shield push - so you've tagged a monster with 3+ charges. Tap shield near it to shield-push it towards a mob of enemies and instantly follow up with a shot. The monster is now a bomb.

    Charging without shooting - If you hold [attack] while shielding, then release shield, you can start charging without using your normal shot. Avoids accidental detonations.

    Explosion knockback - The explosions act like mini blast bombs - their effect is additive (so if they're on opposite sides, they won't fly as far, but if you put a bunch on the same side, the monster will fly really far).

    Interruption - Similar to a heavy sword's second slash, the explosion itself can interrupt enemies during their charge-up time.

    Orbit timing - The orbit ALWAYS starts above the monster and circles counterclockwise. It takes about 3 seconds for it to do a complete orbit around a monster, and if you instantly follow up a charge attack with a normal shot, it will always explode on the left side of the monster (sends them rightwards). If you want to control the direction without looking, you can just delay the detonation hit by like 3/4 second for each 'direction' change you want. (so if you wait 1.5 seconds after shooting the charge shot, it will be on the bottom side of the enemy and send them upwards, etc).

    Split orbs - On the rare chance that you can get the charge projectile to hit two enemies at once, it will spawn an orb on BOTH of them. I've done this rarely by accident in real play, but it's easy to recreate in ATH.

Damage

    T3 lvl 10 Biohazard
    Vs Gremlin (type bonus):
    (Depth 19)
    Normal shot: 104
    Charge shot: 178
    (Depth 24)
    Normal shot: 151
    Charge shot: 252

    Vs lumbers (Depth 20)
    Normal shot: 66
    Charge shot: 168

    Vs Gun puppy (Depth 24)
    Normal shot: 83
    Charge shot: 187

    These numbers are a little deceptive though - the "charge shot" damage is per ball you attach, but the shot you use to trigger them also counts. So if you do a single-charge detonation, it's really 1 charge shot and 1 normal shot added together for your total damage.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 16:11
#1
Nox
Legacy Username
HI TENEL! I say it to you, if

HI TENEL!

I say it to you, if you make a treath, I come to learn

before a lot of test and compare the 2 guns, Today y buy a pulsar, im planig to updrade it to polaris, I like the "explosion ammo"

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 20:22
#2
CrashFu
Legacy Username
Would you happen to know if

Would you happen to know if placing the charge breaks enemies out of freeze? I've been awfully curious about a potential combo of Blizzbrand Charge Attack > Layer multiple catalyzer charges on helpless, unable to dodge monster > wait for unfreeze damage > Finish off by detonating charges.

Mon, 07/11/2011 - 20:45
#3
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
If you're talking about just

If you're talking about just 'tagging' an enemy, then no, that doesn't free them from ice.

On a random note,
I really want to see a 4-catalyzer party tag one monster --> graviton bomb --> detonate.

SPIRIT BOMB!

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:17
#4
rextie
Legacy Username
they need to make it so the

they need to make it so the explosion from one charge sets off the others charges on other mobs within its radius

id like to see someone get a very high ctr uv on this gun itd be amazing D:

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 12:32
#5
SlyJohnny
Legacy Username
This has encouraged me to get

This has encouraged me to get one of these guns. It can replace my Needle Shot as my close in gremlin shooter.

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:09
#6
timanth
Legacy Username
Because of the slow speed of

Because of the slow speed of the projectiles I actually find it EASIER to hit dodging gremlins. Shoot at them in a tight 3-cluster fan and they'll dodge one...right into the other 2. It's great. And the charge shot will actually tag them through their invincibility frames, or that's what I'm seeing anyways. This gun is amazing. I'd get it for the Shadow line, though. It definitely beats the shadowtech alchemer by far (even in AOE damage capability)

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:16
#7
Madadder's picture
Madadder
u do know u can fire charged

u do know u can fire charged shots without the shield right?

charge the shot
release
immediately repress the fire button before the animation finishes
rinse repeat

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 15:50
#8
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
@ charging

Yep - that actually works with most other guns, but not swords, interestingly enough.

I have the Biohazard, but I really want to get the Neutralizer for zombies - they're slow and easy to tag :3

Tue, 07/12/2011 - 17:48
#9
No-Fun-Allowed's picture
No-Fun-Allowed
I love the catalyzers.

I made a post in a different thread mentioning how useful the Catalyzer is against Gremlins. Just gonna copy-paste it here.

"If you fire it aggressively at gremlins, they won't be able to escape the bullets. And by aggressive fire I mean walk towards them while shooting three bullets. Since the bullets move so slow, the gremlins will keep on dodging until they hit a wall. And they'll keep on dodging against the wall if you keep on firing."

I currently have a Virulent Catalyzer, by the way.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 10:02
#10
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Boss fights

So after a few really fun Jelly runs, I've realized the tag-enemies-with-lots-of-charges-and-shield-push trick is like, the staple move in boss fights.

ex: Pile 5-10 charges on smaller enemies while you're running around, shield push them into boss and detonate.

VS Royal Jelly, it tends to knock out the other jellies (less spikes!) and might even push it into phase 2 (the pink spinny phase). Even in phase 2, You can't tag the king while he's invincible, but you can tag the fatter jellies as they chase you while waiting for him to come out of the spin.

I haven't tried vs Roarmulus, but I assume it'll work similarly - just keep one reaverbo- er, retrode/scuttlebot or whatever they're called - just keep one alive and start piling charges on it, and when you get the missiles to hit, take it along and detonate :V

I really want a neutralizer for FSC though. Just imagine the exploding zombies :O

And Vanaduke - well, you can pile charges on him the whole time (or just spam regular shot, which might be better DPS?) since he doesn't really have an invincible phase XD

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