Spiral Knights - New Damage Type: Brute + more.

New Damage Type: Brute + more.

8 replies [Last post]

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 00:15

Darkiboo

Legacy Username

Brute Damage:
(following the description style based from the wiki)
Brute damage originates from rage-filled attacks. These attacks are designed to slow, stun, or leave you vulnerable but come with a nifty turnaround – very strong damage output. The right combination of timing and precision can make this worthwhile. Right now, players can inflict brute damage with heavy weapons such as Hatchets, Hammers and Fist weapons. Enemy attacks that deal brute damage are telegraphed by (a)n (thick/dark) orange circle and lines at the enemy's feet as it prepares an attack.

Sources of Brute damage [monsters]:

Vanaduke
Lumber series
Trojan
Headless Horseman (new enemy – part of Undead Family)
Hand Jelly (new enemy – part of Jelly Family)
Rhino series (new enemies – part of Beast Family)
Monkey series (new enemy – part of Beast Family)
Wife & Angry Wife (new enemy – part of Fiend Family)
Gremlin Digger (new enemy – part of Gremlin Family)
Gremlin Miner (new rare monster – part of Gremlin Family)
Boulders (new Map Hazard)

Sources of Brute damage [equipment]:

Heavy Hatchet and upgrades (hatchet - type of sword).
[Heavy Hatchet* → 20lb Hatchet** → 50lb Hatchet*** → Strongman****]

Strikeout and upgrades (baseball bat – type of hammer).
[Strikeout** → Little League*** → Homerun**** → Lil' Slugger*****]

Ironmight and upgrades (hammer).
[Ironmight*** → Strongwill**** → Resolute*****]
or → Fury*****]

Smash 'Em***** (hammer).

Contender and upgrades (fist).
[Contender*** → Heavy Weight**** → Champion*****]

Brass Knuckle and upgrades (fist).
[Brass Knuckle*** → Spiked Knuckles**** → Razor Knuckles*****]
or → Molten Knuckles**** → Eruption*****]
or → Dark Knuckles**** → Shadow Fight*****]
or → Iron Knucles**** → Titanium Knuckles*****]

Pillow** (sword – gag item).

Cannon and upgrades (gun).
Cannon*** → Superier Cannon**** → Unquestionable*****]
or → Holy Fire*****]
or → Questionable*****]

Sucker Punch (gun).
[Sucker Punch** → Cheapshot*** → Surprise****]

Rage***** (bomb).

Boom and upgrades (bomb).
[Boom** → Bigger Boom*** → Enormous Boom**** → Speechless*****]

Prototype and upgrades (bomb).
[Prototype*** → Nuke**** → World Ender*****]

Popcorn** (bomb – gag item).

All current equipment that has “Normal” as a defense, will automatically have minor Brute defense. There will be full Brute protection armor in future updates.

No Monster Family is weak to Brute except for Avi, which has Air. To add, Brute is weak to Air. Avi is a family of bird and other aviators whose swift and tactical advantages usually outweigh Brute, but if they are actually hit all will not end well. Along with Air comes a new status condition: Airborne (your Knight is lifted off the ground and pointed out horizontal). While airborne, you will not be able to shield, take increased Brute damage and increased Air damage (you're on their turf now!). However, you will gain increased movement speed and levitation over the map hazards Floor Spikes, Brambles and Poison Brambles. Elemental Defense will decrease the additional damage you would otherwise take.

The Avi Family will be updated in a future post. I just wanted to tease you.

Let me know what you think! Comments welcome! Thanks!

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 00:15

Darkiboo

Legacy Username

[reserved for Bestiary]

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 00:16

Darkiboo

Legacy Username

[reserved for equipment

[reserved for equipment details]

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 01:26

Quasirandom

Adding another damage type

Adding another damage type would require an enormous amount of rebalancing, and make a mess of the game for quite a while. I say no.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 05:09

Effrul

Nooooo

I'm with Quizzical - it's a lot of trouble to go to for not a lot of appreciable gain.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 09:18

No-Fun-Allowed

New damage type? No.

New weapons? Yes.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 10:00

Darkiboo

Legacy Username

I disagree that an "enormous"

I disagree that an "enormous" amount of rebalancing would be necessary. I suppose it is my fault for not directly pointing out how Brute damage comes about in damage, leading you to believe that it's like Elemental, Piercing or Shadow-- with a large role in dealing/receiving damage to/from enemies.

However, I do believe that Air 'would' require a trivial amount of rebalancing being that it would be a rather important/big damage type since it hosts it's own family for it. I would plan for current enemies and added enemies to posses its damage type in current families as well.

Brute damage can be more of an endgame damage type that's already resisted with normal gear (as I said before, it'd grow natural Brute defenses). As the Wiki points out:

Tier 1: All monsters deal normal damage. (Added: A small amount of monsters deal brute damage.)
Tier 2: Some monsters deal normal damage. (Added: Some monsters deal brute damage.)
(I assume) Tier 3: A small amount of monsters deal normal damage. (Added: Several monsters deal brute damage.)

While there is still trances of normal damage in the second and third deal, it's obviously split between another damage type. Brute damage can be split as well with some monsters inflicting a full amount.

I may have gone about it the wrong way, presentation wise. But I feel that Three Rings is going to need 'some' type of big addition to the game to keep people interested. At this rate, new equipment+bosses will only go so far. By giving players another giant category of weapons and armor to grind for, it adds just that much more time to their playing. The nice thing about adding a new damage type in a game like this, that has them be a large part of the game, is that the new damage type spreads through the entirety of the game adding so many new things and adding much more gameplay time.

If my damage type idea flops over, so be it. But Three Rings is going to need to eventually take the chore of having to rebalance or add in some big to keep us satisfied.

Thank you.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 10:27

Orangeo

What? think about it like

What? think about it like this:
three damage types(excluding normal), six combonations
four damage types(also excluding normal), twenty four combonations.
How would you be able to pick the right weapon for that? We'd just have EVERYONE using normal-only weapons like striker or autogun.
On top of that, thats four times more work for OOO to put into the game, and they cant even fix things like rocket turrets or teleporting wolvers, and they decide to make us happy by overnerfing fire enemies. They keep trying to add new things without fixing the old stuff. On top of that, Ironmight is already a taken name, you know, ironmight plate mail, helm, sheild.
Of course, you mess up my calculatins by adding: "No Monster Family is weak to Brute"
That still leaves eighteen combonations of monster famialies, assuming there are neuteral and ressistant families. And you decide to add in one family. Avi. Great, that's balanced. The fact is that adding in another damage type is UNBALANCING. Durr hurr.
Plus, you add it with the normal? If you do that, and normal reccedes while brute grows, it pretty much is just another name for normal. So that means it's even less needed.

Wed, 07/13/2011 - 12:44

Darkiboo

Legacy Username

Yes Brute is a pseudo form of

Yes Brute is a pseudo form of normal, that is what I'm trying to get at. While it does nothing for the other Family just as normal does, it only does something for Avi and vice versa. What I'm trying to do is neglect every other family resistance-wise and focus on just the two new types of damages conflicting with each other.

In short, Brute is like Normal just more powerful and balanced by having adverse effects. Air, if I decided to expand on it, would be weak to this Brute, or special form of Normal, while nothing was weak to Air except Brutish Enemies.

Think of it as a category within a category-- subcategory. While all monsters have a proceeding family with such weaknesses, a special group of those within that family are prone to yet another weakness. Confusing to many, I know.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Air and Brute would be thrown into a calculation of their own and the rest of the damage types and family would not change or need to be readjusted. Slime would still be weak to shadow and resistant to piercing and neutral to elemental; Fiend would still be resistant to Shadow and weak to piercing and neutral to elemental and so on and so forth. Understand now?

That is precisely why I made sure at least Brute would not damage the fabric of this game. And I now believe that Air and Avi should/would not either being that is it only susceptible to Brute-type weaponry, thus allowing the player to care to do more damage to this new family or not.

As simple as I can now make it:

Brute enemies are weak to Air (only the family Avi would have Air).
Avi is weak Brute (certain monsters have Brutish tendencies).

You know, now that I think about it, it may just be so much easier to not only have some existing monsters in existing families gain brute damage but create Brutes as an entirely new family itself. That would then make it a clear understanding that the Brute family and Avi family are both weak to each other and no one else.

Would that make it a better suggestion to instead come out with 2 conflicting families that don't throw off anything else? As I get more feedback, I'm unsure exactly how to make this a suitable idea, but it's a challenge I'm willing to take.

Thoughts? Preferably not insulting ones.

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New Damage Type: Brute + more.