Spiral Knights - I would like to request a sticky for the Bazaar section. If you(the player) has had a bad experience see if you agree.

I would like to request a sticky for the Bazaar section. If you(the player) has had a bad experience see if you agree.

18 replies [Last post]

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:11

yonfire

Legacy Username

I figured this would be the place to suggest a sticky for a forum.

NOTE: Bottum of this thread will list any current discussions on if an item should be added to this thread as well as any pending items.

Would it be possible to have a sticky set up in the Bazaar section of the forums to better facilitate the definition of certain things (read the sale and auctioning of items) in the format listed below or some similar fashion:

INTRO:

Welcome fellow Knights! This guide is to serve as a solid template for anyone wishing to conduct Auctions or Sales in a manner that is easy to read as well as help create a level of uniformity so that we as a community know what to expect. Below you will find two sections; Part 1. Auctions and part 2. Sales. In these sections you will find a simple template in which to base your auction or sale along with some Do's and Dont's that are relevant to each topic.

~Part 1. Auctions~
Should be listed in this format:

Item:
Minimum Bid:
Minimum increase per Bid:
Buy IT Now Price:
End Time:

::or::

Item:
Minimum Bid:
Minimum increase per Bid:
No Buy It Now Price, Highest Bidder Wins!
End Time:

This is true indication of an auction having a min/max (or in the case of no buyout accepting the highest bid) set by the buyer in which they feel is a good price range. Once a buyout has been met the first poster of a buyout should be awarded the item in question UNLESS said buyer cannot provide the funds for set buyout, at which time the second highest offer or next buyout should be awarded the item (in the event there is still time remaining on the auction, bidding may continue from where the highest bid had left off). In the event no buyout is set the highest bidder should be awarded the item, provided they are within the time frame alotted for the auction.

~Part. 2 Sales~
Should be listed in this format:

Item:
Sale Price:
OBO:

This is the easiest format for a sale of an item(s). It lists the max at which the seller is requesting an item and has the option to not sell if that condition is not met, but having an OBO (or best offer) option allows the community to place an offer that they feel the item should be bought for. Considering that the buyer is only setting a for sure sales price it is there right to not sell to an OBO's if they are not satisfactory.

::-the next section is to back up this thread and should not be included in the sticky (if it is deemed worthy of such an action)-::
The reason for this post is to help give the community a general guidline and way to define certain actions. More specificly to help reduce if not eliminate things like this > http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/15700 < from hapening.

For a quick backup reasoning as to why i feel this should be done please see the definitions below:
"In economic theory, an auction may refer to any mechanism or set of trading rules for exchange."
"There are several variations on the basic auction form, including time limits, minimum or maximum limits on bid prices, and special rules for determining the winning bidder(s) and sale price(s)." cited from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auctions

General Practice (read as IRL):
Selling: A person reserves the right to retain the item if the initial sales price is not met.
Auctioning: Once an auction has been set in motion the rules indicated therein place the Auctioner in an obligation to give the item(s) to the highest bidder or the buyout requester. (Unless the minimum bid has not been met)

Mind you, this thread like them all should be used to serve as a guidline for the community.

*If anyone else agrees with this thread please post only once so as to allow any staff members who might read this to have an idea of how much the community might benifit from this.

**If anyone has a recomendation to ammend or change any of the above, please leave a comment and i will update as requests come in.

Closing statement: In short i would like the help of the community to help make this post better and solidify it. We all have real life issues and come to the game to get away from it all, lets continue to work together to make it that way.

::Current Discussions::
Anything being discussed will be decided upon at a later date after several votes have been cast towards an item
Reserves:
Votes for: 1
Votes against: 3

::Pending Items::
Anything waiting for more information but will be added to the list of "DO's" above
Time Clock, Countdown timer
Still waiting on a solid one to be recomended, again try and suggest one that is user friendly for ease of access.

Do's and Dont's
Lets get some pro tips going. Some of which I've read in posts already here will be added when i have a little more time.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:46

Legitzguy

Legacy Username

I agree+

I agree with this, but it still needs help.

I'm going to make some suggestions that I've seen from a much more sophisticated trading forum.

A typical Auction would look like the following:
"
Starting Bid: 5k CE
Min increase: 200 CE
Reserve: 8k CE
Buy It Now: 10k CE

End time: July 14th at 4 PM US East

If the reserve is not met, I reserve the right to not sell the item.
IGN: Legitzguy
"
1) Min increase is usually not needed and can be added if people start spamming nonsense in your trade thread.

2) Instead of B/O (Buy out) you could use BIN meaning Buy it now.

3) If you BIN an item the auction ends immediately. No further offers should be accepted.

4) The words Buy It Now makes more sense than just Buy Out.

5) If the highest bid was at or above the reserved price then the seller is obligated to sell the item or service to the person who made the highest bid.

6) In a different linked thread about bazaar etiquette on the SK forums it said that your starting bid must be at a "lower price" than "original price". You can start an auction at whatever the heck you want. It's your auction. Just as long as it's not spam. With that being said, it's probably a good idea to start the auction lower and set a reserve to what the minimum you want to sell that item/service at. If your reserve is not met it might give you a good idea that you are trying to sell the item/service for too high.

7) If a player retracts their bid they should edit their post as soon as possible so others can see it. If the auction has ended and the highest bidder now backs out of the deal then the seller has the option to either sell it to the 2nd highest bidder or actually start another auction. This part is open to discussion, some players would disagree with this last part of #7, but I do think this is the fairest way of doing things.

8) If you want a bid to count you must post on the forum thread. The seller is not allowed to say "oh I got an ingame offer of such and such amount". The seller must get the ingame offerer to post his bid on the thread.

9) Using this system would attract players to bid on your items because they can be assured that their bids are taken seriously. I am much more likely to bid 8K if it is the reserve price than if it is just a regular bid because I know my seller is now obligated to sell me the item. It will also allow better BINs because the buyer knows that the seller is now obligated to sell it to him and him only.

If players in SK adopt this system I think the bazaar would be much better off.

Bringing some class to SK,
~Legitzguy
~Legends Guild Officer

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:20

Orangeo

I read your top post, but I

I read your top post, but I only think you would need bid end time (why did you put start time?) and the minimum bidding increase. Plus, UV's need a better way to be listed, so i can say, do UV then buy price at the same time, to find the cheapest UV, or search for a specific UV on any given item. And what do you mean by reserve? As in you won't sell the item if it dosent meet that price? If I'm correct, then you should just list it for that price... If not, then explain what reserve means.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:45

tehc0w

Legacy Username

I agree with the OP's format.

I agree with the OP's format. There has to be guidelines/etiquette to follow in the Bazaar. I'd like to see people like G_A_S exiled from the bazaar for not following his own rules.

@DrLequack - The start time I believe he's referring to is the time the Auction starts (Ie: Start time after first bid). Though you are correct as well to just have an end time since the previous mentioned can be applied (Ex: End Time is 24 Hours after first bid) I prefer the End time route.
A Reserve is exactly how you described it (Seller has a price set minimum for what he would sell for) Though that is HIS set price and not the markets set price. If his set price is 9K on an item and his B/O is 10k there is barely any room for bidding or offers and is less likely to receive any hits/responses on his thread. By having a lower starting price and setting a reserve people can still bid and the seller has room to change his reserve according to bids. It happens all the time with lowering buyout prices.

Anyways..I agree this should be stickied.

GJ Yonfire

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:52

Rage-Knight

I don't get the reserve. Bids

I don't get the reserve.
Bids start at 5k, buy-out (buy it now) is 10k, reserve is 8k.
So bids under 8k are, what, pointless? Because seller won't sell under 8k? Then just make bid start at 8k!
Seller agrees to sell under 8k? Then why the hell we need that figure?

The less numbers there are the easier it is to navigate.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:00

yonfire

Legacy Username

Will be updating thread later

Will be updating thread later tonight to reflect any suggestions made by the community that seem relevant to the topic. In between now and then if anyone else has something to add, or likes someones suggestion a lot post and quote the suggestion to make sure it gets added adjusted.

I.E. quick read and ya the start time is redundant and shouldn't be listed. Which will be removed later tonight. =D

EDIT: If anyone tracking this thread knows people who would agree with this being stickied refer them to this post so that there is more support for it to be done. The more hits/suggestions to proper Bazaar-ing the better.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:11

tehc0w

Legacy Username

The reserve is not always set

The reserve is not always set in stone. A reserve is also partly used as a gimmick in conjunction with a low start price. Say for instance the following example:

Start bid 4k
Reserve 8k
BIN: 10k

Person A: Starts at 4k knowing the reserve is 8k.
Person B: Bids 4.5
Person A: outbids at 5K
so on and so forth creating a bid war. The bid's stop at 7K and the end time is coming to a close. The seller can update his thread to reflect he has decided to change his reserve to 7k which will tell bidders the reserve has been met. And any other bid above the top c/o can be a winning bid. Therefor increasing his chance at another bid.

The reserve is purely optional and is NOT mandatory on any/all sales or auctions. If a seller values the item he has and is patient he can set a reserve. If your looking for a quick sale where profit is profit then no reserve is required. This is all user preference.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:12

Backpack

Legacy Username

Reserve is set in order to

Reserve is set in order to piss off bidders and make them really annoyed that they ever spent time watching the auction only to find out the seller is to greedy and a jerk to not list how much they want and not accept what offers they set themselves up to recieve...

RESERVES ARE A WASTE OF TIME

Reserve should be minimum bid, plain and simple, if you really think a lower starting price is going to bring more bidders for an item that you going to REQUIRE a specific amount after they spent days watching your item and bidding your more than likely going to make everyone mad and not want to purchace from you, or atleast cause a re-auction and i bet it gets WAY less attention and maby no attention to your sales again... PLEASE do not suggest a Reserve, omg that makes me hate dealing with this whole bazaar in general

I think it would be nice to use a Countdown timer if you plan to use a specific ending time, i know timestamps for me are not correct, i just have to kinda watch the first offer post and guess from there...not nessessary but very helpful and makes your auction look very professional...

but in general, people come and post frekkin 3-4star recipes here, i doubt they will bother to follow any etiquette, but hopefully you can clean up a few auctions and make them more reasonable...

but PLEASE DONT SUGGEST RESERVES!!!!!

Thanks :P

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:16

Orangeo

@tehc0w

I don't think most players check the fourms for AH matters, probabaly only people looking for UV's who have 200k + to spend, or people that have way to much time on their hands. The fact is, you can't just start a bidding war by waiting for them to hit a reserve. It's unfair. I don't want to have to use somehting like that, or have to put up with it. If you think the bidding hasn't rised enough, then take the item off the auction. (Can you take an item off if it's been bidded on?)
But really, reserves are lame.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:20

Orangeo

And to whomever mantioned

And to whomever mantioned having a clock, that's a good idea. Definite add as opposed to "very long, short," etc. Same for the dumb little bars on items. I need numbers.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:57

#10

yonfire

Legacy Username

Will make mention of Using a

Will make mention of Using a timer if someone can suggest a website that supports this action, preferably user friendly as some folks like it simple or if someone will write up a walkthrough on how to set it up i'll add it directly to the post.

Also I agree with the half of the people who say reserves are annoying. A reserve should be considered the min bid, considering that the seller (due to a reserve) will not sell an item if the min is not met. This basicly makes the reserve the min bid and anything below that is wasted. Mind you this is my opinion and the thread will be updated based on majority vote or if an idea is just awesome, see end of this post for more detail.

I always assumed you used a reserve and doubled the time frame so that the people having a bid war to the reserve would keep the auction bumped for you. Thus allowing more people to see the auction and in turn bringing in more potential viewers to purchase. All in all it is kind of a misleading term see examples:

Resvere-

Min bid - 5k
Reserve - 8K
BIN - 12k

Min bid only hits 7k by the time the end hits, auctioner chooses not to sell the item. The people wasted their time trying to out bid each other and the posters due to the fact that he/she/it wont sell for less than 8k.

No reserve-

Min bid - 8k
BIN - 12k

People know that 8k is the minimum to be expected and will judge on if they want to start bidding there or not. Thus the poster is either getting hits on his/hers/its auction or not. People posting met min bid so poster is happy and at some point a buy will be pleased as well.

::For the record no bickering please:: If you disagree with something say so and give a quick example to support your side on adding or not adding a suggestion to the thread. Wanted to post this to avoid any fights that may occur.

I'll add the best ideas outright like a " timer option using an external link", and i'll add other things that are questionable if enough people say "you know what i like that and think it's viable".

Be home soon to make some changes to the thread and add in some bolding for topics or words that need to stand out.

EDIT: @ DrLequak

In regards to removing an item, ill add this as well: If an item has bids and they arn't high enough that you feel it should be sold for, assuming the bids are higher than the minimum than removing said item would be a no-no. if the bids are lower than the min than of corse removing an item is acceptable. This ties into the whole reserve thing again... if you place a min bid price, and it is met, you should sell even if it doesnt get quite as high as you like. The key factor is while we do say min, its abreviated for minimum basicaly stating; if noone else wants than ill take this price for the sale.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:53

#11

Orangeo

Nice man ^_^ . For the

Nice man ^_^ . For the record, did I seem to be bickering? I don't think I was, but if you say so I'll acknowlage that.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:00

#12

yonfire

Legacy Username

No you and backpack were

No you and backpack were fine, a little heavy usage of caps by backpack but still fine by my standards. I just dont want to see cussing directly at a person and derailing of the main topic into a "your wrong im write type of thing." If it's constructive and there are examples to support the use or non-use of something i dont mind the discussion and welcome it at that =D it will lead to a better product overall.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:00

#13

tehc0w

Legacy Username

Ahhh I wasn't actually PRO

Ahhh I wasn't actually PRO reserve haha. I actually don't care for it at all. My post was to just answer the previous questions asked. I don't think either of you were out of line or bickering so no worries there..I just don't want you to think I'm standing behind the reserve idea LOL.

I'm going to vote for the reserve being scratched entirely.

I am however against people pulling an item out with bids currently on it if the minimum is met. The only excusable reason would be that the seller decided to use it themselves.

+1 on the countdown timer as well if we can find 1 that's simple to use.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:43

#14

Backpack

Legacy Username

i use caps in place of bold

i use caps in place of bold letters, basically just words i want to stand out, not so much yelling, ive always considered caps yelling when someone used Mostly caps, IE like when i said RESERVES ARE A WASTE OF TIME, yea i consider that yelling, and ill yell it from a mountaintop rofl...that stuffs mindblowingly annoying...

but you seem to be on the right track, unfortunately i wish i could find the posts that had the good countdown timers, but those will only work for people who wish to start auction immediately, while alot of auctions start on first bid....then its hard to set countdown cause the timestamps are so screwy that its hard to know what to set it for...

so all depends on if the person wants to do a 48hr from first bid or 48hr from now for countdown i think, tho i DID see someones countdown timer that actually worked with snipe stuff, every time i would rebid on the item (through these fourms posts) it would add the few mins...

BUT again, thats another thing id like to suggest, snipe timers SUCK imho, i really wish people would use something more along the lines of - last 30mins are only available to the previous bidders.... or last hour..... somethin like that, that way you know when the end of the auction is, rather than bid, wait, MORE TIME? bid wait, MORE TIME? bid wait, MORE TIME? so frustrating.... im debating to never bid on a "snipe rule" auction again, i dont wish to "raise" their prices in a bidwar for them only to be annoyed to the Nth Degree

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:47

#15

Backpack

Legacy Username

heres an easy one, actually i

heres an easy one, actually i think this is the one i saw on the auction i liked, has a different layout when your like 20 days past the countdown time tho hehehe kinda funny

http://www.timeanddate.com/ -- bottom left has countdown timer....very self explanitory from what i can see...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:03

#16

yonfire

Legacy Username

EDITS: Removed start time as

EDITS:

Removed start time as it is redundant
Added in some style to the guide to give it some visual contrast
Added in an intro (if anyone has something to add here please suggest it)
Broke down the guide into 2 parts for easier navigation
Still looking for a solid timer/clock countdown system to be recomended
Opted for the Buy It Now terminology instead of Buyout.

Looking for Pro Tips:
Already seen a few posted ill add later when i have a bit more time

Topic to be discussed:
Definition of sniping when its good and when its bad, do we want to include this?

Thought i'd have more time to work on this tonight so just pushing through it as best i can ill take a solid look agian through everything this weekend and ill keep active in the discussion as i can during work (yay for being your own boss)

@ Backpack
I hear ya bud, why i mentioned above you guys were good and posted the "bickering/fighting" comment to state it early on and set a sort of guidline for what we should be doing in this thread.

Overall, if you guys know anyone who would agree with what we are trying to accomplish, let um know we are working on this the more the merrier. Have um drop their support with a "+1 to sticky" or join in on the discussion.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:12

#17

Orangeo

That's cool yonfire. Anyway,

That's cool yonfire.
Anyway, onto sniping.
It's good when you get a deal. It sucks when you get basicaly robbed. There's the answer to the question "Definition of sniping when its good and when its bad, do we want to include this?"
Now onto the way to make things more fair. What they need is a little ingame message that says something like;
"Your 'Shivermist burster recipie' auction has a current bid price of 5200 crowns and is ending in 5 minutes."
Then if someone thought that was too low, they could end it. Of course that's kiiinda like what we said earlier, about making a highest required bid price, but you'd lose all your current bidders if you restarted, so it's well checked.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:13

#18

Orangeo

and +1 to sticky for shure.

Search

I would like to request a sticky for the Bazaar section. If you(the player) has had a bad experience see if you agree.